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Old 05-14-2009, 12:45 PM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,030,761 times
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I thnik that most people just see waht tehysee and asians have certainly gone a long ways in litle time. i thnik it has more to do wit their culture. I know that I saw vitnamese go from a family that spoke liilte english to sons and daughter that had college degreees. They just seem to value education and work more than most americans how days.Even many that came here in the first generation made great strives as far as progreessing to ownership of very good businesses.Frankly the individaul makes a difference as does the culture and their values IMO.

 
Old 05-14-2009, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Mequon, WI
7,678 posts, read 18,909,463 times
Reputation: 4139
Like I said, if your happy with the current progress of Hispanics, blacks in this country then so be it. My guess is if Bill Cosby came on to CD people would call him ignorant and stereo-typing blacks. Better parents and no more excuses are what inner-cities need instead of useless government programs like AA and welfare.
 
Old 05-14-2009, 12:50 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
16,469 posts, read 33,425,465 times
Reputation: 15198
Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
It is intellectually negligent to disregard the only RECENT access to equal education (meaning multiple generations of educationally deprived denizens in this country), the resources, and funds allocated to the Civil Rights movement by the black community alone (as other races were investing their resources in enterprise, and other economically and politically lucrative ventures), in addition to the indoctrination and institutionalization of the oppression of blacks over a span of generations (Black Codes anyone?)...

And we sit back and wonder why such a chasm exists between racial minorities...It should be noted as well, that the black plight in this country, in particular, is one that occurred (and truthfully is ongoing) over the course of generations. By contrast, the hardships endured by other ethnicities are a relatively recent imposition (meaning the injustices/disparities have not become culturally ingrained in successive generations of offspring)....
No one has ever stopped black people from home schooling their children. And how do you explain the extraordinary accomplishments of Booker T. Washington? And Sydney Poitier's parents sold tomatoes and gravel in the Bahamas and he turned out to be a very fine and well spoken man. And there are plenty of books in public libraries. There are used book stores with cheap books for just a few dollars. My mother read wonderful books to us like Charlotte's Web and The Hobbit when we were kids. Not every teacher I had was that great a teacher, but what helped was having fellow classmates that were also interested in going to college.

I think that anyone who is a parent, planned or unplanned, has to step up the plate and be a good parent, no matter what their economic status is. Almost every family in the US currently has both parents working. My parents both worked over 40 hours a week when I was young, and we turned out fine. Parents are the ones that have to instill in their children a desire to learn and have a productive life. No one else can do that for them. Parents have a much greater influence on their children than their teachers. And the desire to learn shouldn't stop once someone graduates and leaves the classroom. At the age of almost 29, my boyfriend is still learning about new subjects like electric car tachnology and programming motherboard chips. This he does all on his own and outside a classroom. The internet is really a great and free resource. I didn't learn about collecting and dealing in antiques until later in life. But I really enjoy learning more about them, studying the market for them and it's really quite a lucrative job skill to have.

Did you know that MIT offers free online courses? Free Online Course Materials | MIT OpenCourseWare

Otherwise, over the last 30 years, I've worked with recent immigrants from Haiti, Sudan and in Asia in restaurants and the major hotels. They were all hard workers and willing to work overtime or a second job. They didn't throw their money away on bling, frivolities or leasing fancy cars. Many lived in crowded conditions. Many were sending part of the paychecks back to family in their home countries. Others were saving to buy real estate or to start their own business. No one was concerned about being accepted by white people, or caring what white people thought of them, or if other races were willing to date them. They were only focused on their goal of bettering themselves and their loved ones. None of these people felt they were owed anything by anyone else. They know that it's on them to succeed in life. They appreciated the opportunities that were in the US.

Crappy things have happened to every race and culture. And the best way to deal with it is just to move forward. One of the worst things the US has down to any group were the atomic bombs they dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Living with the aftermath must have been really horrendous. I never hear the Japanese complaining about that nor the internment camps of WWII.
 
Old 05-14-2009, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Mequon, WI
7,678 posts, read 18,909,463 times
Reputation: 4139
Quote:
They just seem to value education and work more than most americans how days.
Don't get me wrong I'm not just picking on Hispanics and blacks, there is plenty of white trash in the south and American white kids falling behind in schools even in the suburbs. We need to have school year round all over the country if you ask me. All kids in the US are falling fast behind the rest of the world and this is an American culture thing as well. You don't have to be smart in America to succeed just very hard working.
 
Old 05-14-2009, 01:00 PM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,088,829 times
Reputation: 1814
Ill say this, Ive been a supporter of Bill Cosby's as well as Clarence Thomas' mission from day one...Even before the outcry of dissension to his statements. Even got into a couple of heated dialogues whilst defending his position.

Concurrently, I have a disdain for the perspective of those who ascribe nearly every degenerate aspect of only ONE or TWO cultures, to them simply being lazy, uninitiated, predisposed to violence etc. (<<<paraphrasing)...all the while decontextualizing those long standing and multigenerational components that DID precipitate the state of some ethnic minorities as we "like" to observe them today.

While a Bristol Palin, "merely made a mistake," or Paris Hilton, is just being "young and trendy." Those ethnic minorities targeted in this thread are written off as derelict self-destructive delinquents.

But at the end of the day, it is what it is...like buddy said a couple of posts ago..we kind of just see what we want to see..

Last edited by solytaire; 05-14-2009 at 01:30 PM..
 
Old 05-14-2009, 01:28 PM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,088,829 times
Reputation: 1814
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
No one has ever stopped black people from home schooling their children. And how do you explain the extraordinary accomplishments of Booker T. Washington? And Sydney Poitier's parents sold tomatoes and gravel in the Bahamas and he turned out to be a very fine and well spoken man. And there are plenty of books in public libraries. There are used book stores with cheap books for just a few dollars. My mother read wonderful books to us like Charlotte's Web and The Hobbit when we were kids. Not every teacher I had was that great a teacher, but what helped was having fellow classmates that were also interested in going to college.

To be honest, I think about this quite often..The reason a Booker T. Washington or a Sydney Poitier was able to achieve was because, all it took for a citizen to be a model citizen WAS hard work...We now live in a technological age. In those areas where the only access underprivileged youth may have to a computer IS in a library, the plain truth is that there is very little 'getting ahead' to do. One cannot go to a library and begin breaking down and opening up their computers to explore the motherboards, and capacitors or transistors...

I know for a fact this is how MANY "home schooled" children become so well learned in the technically oriented fields. Not through a book, but through hands on experience...Furthermore, the legacies (Im not even going to imply that this is how a majority of non minorities earn their education, but it does exist, in no such diminishing numbers) and nepotism that have been instituted for the prevailing class to to succeed do not leave me scratching my head as to why they move ahead.

As for Booker T. Washington, had not a generous white person paid for his education (as close to nepotism as an African American was going to get in those days) --- he too would have lacked the access AND resources to capitalize on his potential...And as so far as I am aware, a non-minority paying for the tuition of an African American in that day-and-age was virtually unheard of. So due to the isolated nature of his situation, I am still compelled to believe that the multitudinous generations of educationally deprived blacks is a more prevailing factor in the present state of Black America than is being acknowledged.

Nevertheless, I wont and cant go through all of the underlying components that factor into why some minorities are achieving and others are not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
I think that anyone who is a parent, planned or unplanned, has to step up the plate and obe a good parent, n matter what their economic status is. Almost every family in the US currently has both parents working. My parents both worked over 40 hours a week when I was young, and we turned out fine. Parents are the ones that have to instill in their children a desire to learn and have a productive life. No one else can do that for them. Parents have a much greater influence on their children than their teachers. And the desire to learn shouldn't stop once someone graduates and leaves the classroom. At the age of almost 29, my boyfriend is still learning about new subjects like electric car tachnology and programming motherboard chips. This he does all on his own and outside a classroom. The internet is really a great and free resource. I didn't learn about collecting and dealing in antiques until later in life. But I really enjoy learning more about them, studying the market for them and it's really quite a lucrative job skill to have.

Did you know that MIT offers free online courses? Free Online Course Materials | MIT OpenCourseWare

Otherwise, over the last 30 years, I've worked with recent immigrants from Haiti, Sudan and in Asia in restaurants and the major hotels. They were all hard workers and willing to work overtime or a second job. They didn't throw their money away on bling, frivolities or leasing fancy cars. Many lived in crowded conditions. Many were sending part of the paychecks back to family in their home countries. Others were saving to buy real estate or to start their own business. No one was concerned about being accepted by white people, or caring what white people thought of them, or if other races were willing to date them. They were only focused on their goal of bettering themselves and their loved ones. None of these people felt they were owed anything by anyone else. They know that it's on them to succeed in life. They appreciated the opportunities that were in the US.

Wholeheartedly agree with this statement...I think women in general need to exercise more discretion in choosing their mates...I think men need to exercise some control over themselves and on behalf of the youth, when that control is not exercised, then they certainly need to become responsible fathers.

I have my own theory as well about the role that the inception of the hippy drug culture, feminism, and the government sponsored crack epidemic (some say) affected what we recognize as the black culture and underprivileged black fatherhood, as well..but thats for a CSPAN roundtable discussion somewhere..lol

Last edited by solytaire; 05-14-2009 at 02:08 PM..
 
Old 05-14-2009, 04:44 PM
 
2,385 posts, read 3,704,642 times
Reputation: 2395
This is going to upset some people, but the completion rate for high school for most ethnic groups worldwide parallels their completion rate in the United States. In other words, it's almost the same.

http://www.hayley.cc/childlabor_files/image006.jpg (broken link)

Are you really telling me that racism is what holds these cultures back? I'm not saying it's not a cause for contention, but I don't think discrimination is the primary factor that stands in people's way.
 
Old 05-14-2009, 05:13 PM
 
72 posts, read 237,918 times
Reputation: 86
Hmmm....That map has some inaccuracies.

For example, that map said that 95% of people in mexico complete high school, but that completely contradicts the world fact book ( An official source which is the work of the CIA) which states that 9 percent of Mexico's population is illiterate.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/mx.html

Another example is that it shows that India has a very low rate of high school completion. That is probably true, but that is not representative of Indians in America. According to this reference (the 2000 Census) Indians are among the most educated groups within American society.

http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/censr-17.pdf

Anywho, just though I might point out those things. Is your map from a credible source?
 
Old 05-14-2009, 06:59 PM
 
Location: British Columbia.
343 posts, read 1,231,997 times
Reputation: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgadams View Post
Hmmm....That map has some inaccuracies.

For example, that map said that 95% of people in mexico complete high school, but that completely contradicts the world fact book ( An official source which is the work of the CIA) which states that 9 percent of Mexico's population is illiterate.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/mx.html

Another example is that it shows that India has a very low rate of high school completion. That is probably true, but that is not representative of Indians in America. According to this reference (the 2000 Census) Indians are among the most educated groups within American society.

http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/censr-17.pdf

Anywho, just though I might point out those things. Is your map from a credible source?

The map above is just plain stupid and is not an accurate reflectioin of what is happening in the United States.

The reality is that the situation is much more complicated then some here would like to belive.

In general I will say immigrants (of non mexican origin) tend to do better because they are more greatful then alot of American born citizens. Children of immigrants have a great pressure on them to do well in the U.S.

That being said Asians tend to excel in academics because most Asians come from cultures that have had a culture and history of education for thousands of years. The same goes for many jews. Much of jewish culture back in the days revolved around study of hebrew and the torah. Being an intellectual was part of growing up.

In the United States many blacks never had the oppurtunity to go to school, let alone go to college.

Lets be honest. KIDS REPLICATE THEIR PARENTS BEHAVIOR!!! The reality is that the current generation of African Americans living in the U.S. are the biproduct of a generation that by and large did not attend higher education.
 
Old 05-14-2009, 07:25 PM
 
52,631 posts, read 75,477,928 times
Reputation: 11627
Quote:
Originally Posted by XXclimberX View Post
The map above is just plain stupid and is not an accurate reflectioin of what is happening in the United States.

The reality is that the situation is much more complicated then some here would like to belive.

In general I will say immigrants (of non mexican origin) tend to do better because they are more greatful then alot of American born citizens. Children of immigrants have a great pressure on them to do well in the U.S.

That being said Asians tend to excel in academics because most Asians come from cultures that have had a culture and history of education for thousands of years. The same goes for many jews. Much of jewish culture back in the days revolved around study of hebrew and the torah. Being an intellectual was part of growing up.

In the United States many blacks never had the oppurtunity to go to school, let alone go to college.

Lets be honest. KIDS REPLICATE THEIR PARENTS BEHAVIOR!!! The reality is that the current generation of African Americans living in the U.S. are the biproduct of a generation that by and large did not attend higher education.
Actually, African immigrants are the most educated immigrants in the US: African immigration to the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

African Immigrants are the Most Educated

Nigerians Are The Most Educated Immigrants In The Us. - Nairaland

RealClearPolitics - Articles - Black Immigrants, An Invisible 'Model Minority'

So, yes...This is more complex than we think. Check this out too: Thomas Sowell - "The Education of Minority Children"

Watson Williams Elementary School Test Scores - Utica, New York - NY and the same school: Student Teacher Ratio Watson Williams Elementary School - Utica, New York - NY

another school in that district: Martin Luther King Jr Elementary School Test Scores - Utica, New York - NY and the makeup: Student Teacher Ratio Martin Luther King Jr Elementary School - Utica, New York - NY

and there are others like those two across the country, but they just don't get the attention.

Also, let's not put all asians under the same situation. SE Asians have high poverty rates and Asaians overall have a higher percentage of people in poverty. Then, you can't get too caught up in the family income numbers due to the fact that Asians are concentrated in cities with high standards of living and in many cases have extended family in the same household. Think about cities like Honolulu, LA, San Fran., NYC, Seattle, Houston, Chicago and Boston, among others in terms of standard of living.
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