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Old 06-01-2009, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Sandpoint, Idaho
2,880 posts, read 5,071,331 times
Reputation: 3020

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatgirlwow View Post
I haven't read all the responses here but let me educate you about the Asians living in North America. There are two types
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatgirlwow View Post
1) The ones who inter-marry each other & live in an Asian ghetto which is "gated" and "protected" by lion statues. Its called CHINA TOWN. They dine on traditional Chinese food eg dog meat etc, the barbeque chicken you see hanging in their restaurants. If you are not Asian/Chinese you have not been there much & frankly you have not much reason to go there as everything is written in Chinese & you are not interested in their "exotic cuisine" as to you, those things are pets not food!

(I'm not making up that Chinese eat dog meat its well documented Dog meat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia so please dont attack me, attack wikipedia as I'm just but the messenger. )
I am somewhat stunned to read this. Had to check the calendar to make sure it was 2009 and not 1909. My only comments and the only possible response I can come up with is: WTF do you live such that your powers of observation are so cartoonish? and Did your formal schooling end after junior high school?

"Chinatowns" were ethnic enclaves that were more or less established to keep the Chinese from integrating with the rest of White America. This feelign toward Chinese was cemented in the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 and which remained in effect officially for 10 years and unofficially much longer.

Chinese neighborhoods within cities were routinely fire-bombed. Chinatowns were the only place in which Chinese were left alone. And even then, this was not always the case. As cities grew and contact with Chinese were unavoidable, even officially sanctioned exortion and arson also took place in Chinatowns. But they were the only effective place for Chinese to migrate to. As such, they took on a life of their own, offering services to new immigrants impossible to find elsewhere.

Each Asian ethnicity had a difference American experience. Early Japanese were farmers. Vietnamese refugees were very mixed, some going to urban neighborhoods (San Jose) others to the Delta. Koreans to LA, Dallas, Northern Virginia. Laotians to the northern Midwest. Indians to New Jersey, Silicon Valley, and the greater DC area. Filipinos to SF, LA, and Washington DC. While some early Asian immigrants blended into the Chinatowns, these were overwhelmingly Chinese in ethnicity (inclusive of Vietnamese Chinese). How they were set up and how they evolved goes a long way in explaining the economic status of Asians in modern America.

Wild I am not saying it does not happen, never once have I seen dog meat sold in a Chinatown. It is not a meat that is widely eaten in Asia. Pockets of China and Vietnam perhaps. On the other hand, chicken, duck and pork are wildy popular. Just as popular is being vegetarian. Makes economic sense, no? Far cheaper to raise. Cows, goats, and lamb are far more expensive, hence the small penetration of milk, cheese, and red meat into the Asian diet.

We have (or used to before fast food) quite a bit of regional variation in our foods: seal, whale meat, rabbit, buffalo (bison meat), quail, pheasant, turkey, foie gras, vension, veal, pork, snails, etc. Consumption of these meats horrify some but are heaven to others. And America is a country of 300 million and the Chinese diaspora is close to 1.5 billion.

I have not personally eaten dog, bush meat, etc., but it does not take a rocket scientist to see how such cuisines happen in places were such animals are a ready source of protein and how the sheer size and diversity of China would result on their placement on a menu somewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatgirlwow View Post
2) The tiny Asian woman who escapes scenario (1) above to marry the tall white guy. Asian women are known for desparately escaping their ghetto/ Chinatown by marrying the white man & this interbreeding dramatically dilutes scenario (1) and creates a situation where you see "Asian" kids in colleges. These are the kids with "white fathers" & who dont speak Chinese. They basically look Chinese to white folks but to Chinese pple they are one step from white. Amongst the Chinese they are called the "bananas".
ROTFLMAO! Where on earth are you? Or better, WHEN are you?

We are 35 years beyond the end of Vietnam War...you know that, right? The vast majority of New Asian immigrants to the US have parents with MD's and PhD's from our finest universities. Those that are neither, are well educated in their local university or have made a commitment to have their kids grab a piece of the American dream.

Few Asian families today need to "escape a ghetto." What? Are you reading this from a dog-eared book, circa 1950? The mail-order bride phenomenon is a sad fact of life all over the world, although Asia's falling poverty is making this a increasingly less Asian. I hear Russian and Ukrainians are "in."

The "interbreeding" as you put it, between ethnic Asians and ethnic-non-Asian Americans, is a natural by-product of America, its values of openness and liberty, statistics, and old-fashioned curiosity and mystery.

The banana reference is also very dated. There are now 14 million Asians in the US (4.5%) of the population. Those that are second generation and who live in areas with few ethnic Asians have little social choice but to assimilate. The banana reference is that much more ridiculous given the incessant and rather bitter demands made on other ethnicities to assimilate. Funny.

California is 12.5% Asian/Pacific Islander
Seattle is 10% Asian
Santa Clara County (Silicon Valley) is 26% API
San Francisco is 31% API
Los Angeles & Orange County: 12-14% API
Phoenix 3%
Portland 5%
Las Vegas 4%

I have noticed a large number of interracial marriages among PhDs and MD's. But that may be one of "natural selection" of income and education than of some colonial era fantasy.

Note: the "when" question I ask of you is nontrivial. I came across a map of LA county
Los Angeles County Racial/Ethnic Diversity (1940-2000)

If your idea of LA is 1950/1960, then then your wildly anachronistic and cartoonish notions of Asians in America can perhaps be explained. But my goodness, it is 2009. Time to open your eyes and look around you.


3) I haven't personally come across any "prosperous" Chinese/ Asian people but if the are, then attribute that to (2) above.[/quote]

LOL! You are killing me.
Personal income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

According to 2005 data, the mean household income of ethnic Asians in America was $57,500, more than 17% higher than that of Whites, 68% higher than that of Hispanics, and 91% higher than that of Blacks.

From the personal income stats (as opposed to households), you can see that Asian incomes are driven by educational attainment (college grads, Masters and doctorates).

Asian American Attendance at our top universities is skyrocketing. Presumably, this achievement is prior to feeling the need to innerbreed and "bananafy."

From a 2003 piece from the National Review,

"Asian Americans, though only 4 percent of the nation's population, account for nearly 20 percent of all medical students. Forty-five percent of Berkeley's freshman class, but only 12 percent of California's populace, consists of Asian-Americans. And at UT-Austin, 18 percent of the freshman class is Asian American, compared to 3 percent for the state.

This "over-representation" has produced much consternation among elites who view racial preferences as the best mechanism for ensuring the "proper" racial mix on college campuses. President Clinton worried that, without preferences, "there are universities in California that could fill their entire freshman classes with nothing but Asian-Americans."

The numbers across the Ivy league are all trending toward 20-25%.

And these numbers do not include Asian nationals, many of whom dominate our top PhD programs.

The only fields in which they are not grabbing large chunks of the pie are in graduate programs in education, in the less market-driven social sciences (i.e. not economics) and less prestigious humanities (e.g.. not philosophy or history). This should be a lesson to any Hispanic or Black social activist.

Again, When have you been??? Where do you live?

My goodness...I'll close with a doozy...

http://higley1000.com/about-this-sit...ology/top-25-a

Note the percentages.

Median income in these neighborhoods? Here are a couple

Mission Peak foothills (74.6% Asian), $211,773.
Fremont Place (Los Angeles area), #29/1000 of America's wealthiest neighborhoods and 54.2% Asian: $381,500.

If you don;t wake up, then perhaps your kids should and start drinking the same water they are...with or without banana...

S.

 
Old 06-01-2009, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Sandpoint, Idaho
2,880 posts, read 5,071,331 times
Reputation: 3020
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
Sorry, but I think the reason people don't succeed as a group is because they see themselves as victims and the group leaders and the do-gooders outside the group who perpetuate their victim status aren't doing them any favors by reinforcing that they think they need special help...

In the African American community, there are people in the victimology business. Their whole power (and income) is derived from the group they serve, continuing to think they are in need of special help...so the "leaders" perpetuate it. There are African Americans who are doing really well...and we never hear about them from those leaders in the victimology business because it would be bad for business. And, the media doesn't typically report on group success stories.
These are interesting points.

There are ten great constraints facing American Blacks today.

1) Decline of the Family (out of wedlock births to teenage girls & no follow-up with marriage). Just a killer. Turns up the spin on the poverty cycle, making it ever harder to escape..

2) Replacement of the Church as the binding agent of social values. As secularization has soared, the moral core has drifted.

3) Incarceration for Black men for crimes that are largely "noneconomic" from the point of view of family (i.e. stealing bread/groceries to feed the family versus popping someone (usually another Black) for his ipod or back in the day, his Air Jordans). From good will to no sympathy whatsoever. Brilliant.

4) Undying loyalty to the Democratic Party. I am not saying go the GOP, but my goodness...the Dems feed only a handful of your worst elites.

5) Tremendous lack of public discourse on complex plight of Black America in the national pan-ethnic media. 99% of conversations are behind closed-doors...on both sides...a bad symptom...

6) Taking off from #5, the inability to turn the corner on the how to wash dirty laundry at the regional/national level. Four cops murdered by a thug, rapist, and murderer and the dude gets celebrated. The Jenna 6, where there was White moron versus Black moron. The celebrity of Al Sharpton--sorry, you cannot be serious. The irreverent greed of the King family. Are you serious? All these issues need to be aired out publicaly by leading Blacks not just just by the liberal media.

7) Marginalization of successful, but unfashionable Blacks, in both the media and public spotlight. As I mentioned, I am a huge fan of Thomas Sowell, Shelby Steele, James McWhorter, and Stephen Carter. My goodness, each is so brilliant. Yet, they are virtual unknowns to but a small % of Whites and Blacks. Others are token stand-ins, while others are unfairly given the mantle to "represent" Black America. And what of small business owners, scientists, entrepreneurs? They are given no spotlight unless they are in an industry that is seemed "Black-fashionable."

8) "Enslavement" of entertainment and sports. Profits from these industries must be used to invest in the other 99% of the economy or in Blacks making inroads into the rest of the world. Entertainment is a trap. Instead, it needs to be used leveraging device to launch Blacks into the rest of the global economy.

9) Get rid of Uncle Tomisms. Take a page from Mao. Fund a marketing blitz that celebrates, from the Black POV, the story of house slaves and their values. Right now you are fighting a psuedo people's war, like Asian communists did in a number of countries. And guess what? All ended in economic disaster. Yet eventually each saw the light and embraced the market economy in a big way, so well in fact that they are sucking jobs away from the US middle class. While perhaps the slamming Uncle Tom had a purpose at some point, now it is many of those very qualities (save for subservience) that should be celebrated. Burn an effigy of the thug and raise posters of scholars, entrepreneurs, and of dignified coalition builders who never compromised their values..

10. End the victimology, even though you know there is just cause. You seek an apology, reparations, and social justice through public policy. And after what was done to you institutionally-speaking from 1789 until the 1960s/1970s, you are justified in your anger and case for economic and political retribution. However, going through official channels as it were has given very little progress in most areas of economic life and a great cost to the plight of poor Blacks. End the path you are now on. Instead strive for economic justice through market means. Once you have the wealth, political power will follow...not through engorged and corrupt public officials sucking from the teat of White liberal guilt, but from a new class of independents and libertarians.


Get rid of all ten and the world will be at your feet. For many cultures around the world have great sympathy for how you were wronged and admire the achievements that you have made...but at the same time, would cross to the other side of the street for the fear found in statistics and crime reports and for fear that he/she may have to pay for the burden of history.

You alone can reverse this. And it is you, the former slave, who must free Whites, many of whom remained enslaved by their guilt or their anger/ignorance.

No easy set of tasks, but clearly the present path is unsustainable for the vast majority of your people.

S.
 
Old 06-01-2009, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,022 posts, read 24,678,000 times
Reputation: 11309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandpointian View Post
Note the percentages.
Great post, Sand.

But it's too much of generalization. This is like pornography. Asian by default means women looking like the Chinese/Japanese

That's a bummer. Asia is also home to the Indians, Pakistanis, Sri Lankans and the Middle Easterners.

Those silicon valley numbers you just posted have a lion's share of Indians and Pakistanis.

The lone gripe that I have in this thread is that the Asians are no better compared to the Blacks or the Hispanics. Belittling the latter on the selective achievements of the former is bizarre misrepresentation of racial achievements IMHO.

I hail from Asia. and I have lived across the United States. The Asian people are not too glittery as some of the people here have made them out to be.

To re-quote myself, even those bright people in schools and corporate houses, are the cream of Asia, who if they ever mix back into the fold will be fairly unrecognizable and not even be a footnote in Asia's problems of illiteracy, child/women trafficking and poverty.

Perhaps you guys will practically see the problem if we can replace Canada with Asia and have a perforated border, like with Mexico. The Asians will give illegal immigrants a RUN for their money.
 
Old 06-01-2009, 02:51 PM
 
3,277 posts, read 4,493,145 times
Reputation: 1908
Quote:
This should be a lesson to any Hispanic or Black social activist.
Have you not been paying attention to the thread at all, or do you still just not see how nonsensical at all it is to compare the groups?
 
Old 06-01-2009, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Philly, Philly
932 posts, read 1,493,840 times
Reputation: 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandpointian View Post
These are interesting points.

There are ten great constraints facing American Blacks today.

1) Decline of the Family (out of wedlock births to teenage girls & no follow-up with marriage). Just a killer. Turns up the spin on the poverty cycle, making it ever harder to escape..

2) Replacement of the Church as the binding agent of social values. As secularization has soared, the moral core has drifted.

3) Incarceration for Black men for crimes that are largely "noneconomic" from the point of view of family (i.e. stealing bread/groceries to feed the family versus popping someone (usually another Black) for his ipod or back in the day, his Air Jordans). From good will to no sympathy whatsoever. Brilliant.

4) Undying loyalty to the Democratic Party. I am not saying go the GOP, but my goodness...the Dems feed only a handful of your worst elites.

5) Tremendous lack of public discourse on complex plight of Black America in the national pan-ethnic media. 99% of conversations are behind closed-doors...on both sides...a bad symptom...

6) Taking off from #5, the inability to turn the corner on the how to wash dirty laundry at the regional/national level. Four cops murdered by a thug, rapist, and murderer and the dude gets celebrated. The Jenna 6, where there was White moron versus Black moron. The celebrity of Al Sharpton--sorry, you cannot be serious. The irreverent greed of the King family. Are you serious? All these issues need to be aired out publicaly by leading Blacks not just just by the liberal media.

7) Marginalization of successful, but unfashionable Blacks, in both the media and public spotlight. As I mentioned, I am a huge fan of Thomas Sowell, Shelby Steele, James McWhorter, and Stephen Carter. My goodness, each is so brilliant. Yet, they are virtual unknowns to but a small % of Whites and Blacks. Others are token stand-ins, while others are unfairly given the mantle to "represent" Black America. And what of small business owners, scientists, entrepreneurs? They are given no spotlight unless they are in an industry that is seemed "Black-fashionable."

8) "Enslavement" of entertainment and sports. Profits from these industries must be used to invest in the other 99% of the economy or in Blacks making inroads into the rest of the world. Entertainment is a trap. Instead, it needs to be used leveraging device to launch Blacks into the rest of the global economy.

9) Get rid of Uncle Tomisms. Take a page from Mao. Fund a marketing blitz that celebrates, from the Black POV, the story of house slaves and their values. Right now you are fighting a psuedo people's war, like Asian communists did in a number of countries. And guess what? All ended in economic disaster. Yet eventually each saw the light and embraced the market economy in a big way, so well in fact that they are sucking jobs away from the US middle class. While perhaps the slamming Uncle Tom had a purpose at some point, now it is many of those very qualities (save for subservience) that should be celebrated. Burn an effigy of the thug and raise posters of scholars, entrepreneurs, and of dignified coalition builders who never compromised their values..

10. End the victimology, even though you know there is just cause. You seek an apology, reparations, and social justice through public policy. And after what was done to you institutionally-speaking from 1789 until the 1960s/1970s, you are justified in your anger and case for economic and political retribution. However, going through official channels as it were has given very little progress in most areas of economic life and a great cost to the plight of poor Blacks. End the path you are now on. Instead strive for economic justice through market means. Once you have the wealth, political power will follow...not through engorged and corrupt public officials sucking from the teat of White liberal guilt, but from a new class of independents and libertarians.


Get rid of all ten and the world will be at your feet. For many cultures around the world have great sympathy for how you were wronged and admire the achievements that you have made...but at the same time, would cross to the other side of the street for the fear found in statistics and crime reports and for fear that he/she may have to pay for the burden of history.

You alone can reverse this. And it is you, the former slave, who must free Whites, many of whom remained enslaved by their guilt or their anger/ignorance.

No easy set of tasks, but clearly the present path is unsustainable for the vast majority of your people.

S.
Bwhaaaaahahahahahahahahaha!

Good try!
 
Old 06-01-2009, 03:01 PM
 
3,277 posts, read 4,493,145 times
Reputation: 1908
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMiiorHateMii View Post
Bwhaaaaahahahahahahahahaha!

Good try!
Not even. Nothing that couldn't be found on the standard right wing flashcard set.
 
Old 06-01-2009, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh but I'm ready to relocate......
727 posts, read 1,650,835 times
Reputation: 398
See the thing is whites and non-blacks try to downplay the scars that AA/Blacks have dealt with by saying "Theyre crying." or "They think theyre victims." and thats not the reality of the situation. Thats just white peoples own insecurity.
 
Old 06-01-2009, 03:21 PM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,013,914 times
Reputation: 17978
Look at history every group has scars. Its if you let yourself be scarred and quite trying that counts. No one really gets ahead by anything but hard work and risk in any society.
 
Old 06-01-2009, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh but I'm ready to relocate......
727 posts, read 1,650,835 times
Reputation: 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
Look at history every group has scars. Its if you let yourself be scarred and quite trying that counts. No one really gets ahead by anything but hard work and risk in any society.
My argument isnt about getting ahead. Most black folk get ahead just fine. My argument is that whites and Non-blacks dont understand the scars we have. Its about the reality of the situation. We werent brought to America by freewill. Consider that before anything.......and then you have to consider that the majority of black people have lived the recession since birth. The problem isnt us not working hard. The problem is whites make double of a black that is working the same job........and I'm talking about before the "worlds" recession for arguments sake. We dont want to be victims but the reality of the situation is that we are. Victims of Opression,Victims of institutionalized racism,Victims of kidnapping,Victims of brainwash,Victims of cultural molestation.........

Please before anyone has another "Ignorant" discussion about blacks.............Read "Miseducation of the negro","Post Traumatic Slave syndrome and "Jim Lynch letters"
 
Old 06-01-2009, 05:02 PM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,087,903 times
Reputation: 1814
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarqueseGilmore View Post
My argument isnt about getting ahead. Most black folk get ahead just fine. My argument is that whites and Non-blacks dont understand the scars we have. Its about the reality of the situation. We werent brought to America by freewill. Consider that before anything.......and then you have to consider that the majority of black people have lived the recession since birth. The problem isnt us not working hard. The problem is whites make double of a black that is working the same job........and I'm talking about before the "worlds" recession for arguments sake. We dont want to be victims but the reality of the situation is that we are. Victims of Opression,Victims of institutionalized racism,Victims of kidnapping,Victims of brainwash,Victims of cultural molestation.........

Please before anyone has another "Ignorant" discussion about blacks.............Read "Miseducation of the negro","Post Traumatic Slave syndrome and "Jim Lynch letters"
Well said...and I agree... And to give credit where credit is due, non blacks do make a seemingly valiant effort to suture the wounds inflicted on the 'scarred' black race by telling them to quit thinking they are victims...

But then too, thats the problem: they are focused on trying to ameliorate what they regard as a superficial wound, when in truth, the Black culture has been suffering from an inoperable (possibly terminal) cancer since this country's inception. And the cancer was largely promulgated by this country's own govt. (and Im not even necessarily talking about slavery)

And I keep it witin the confines of this country because this country is the reality for present day black Americans.. Not Africa, not the mistreatment/enslavement of blacks in the Dutch Isles many ages ago, not the forced servitude of blacks by Spaniards...but a culturally ingrained, institutionalized and government sponsored desecration, and impediment to the progress of blacks in this country over a span of centuries (meaning: that the previous injustices affects, and new/current injustices had been inflicted upon successive generational offspring of American blacks.)

Last edited by solytaire; 06-01-2009 at 06:01 PM..
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