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Old 06-12-2009, 03:03 PM
 
4,085 posts, read 2,441,900 times
Reputation: 1170
You might be interested in this article. It is ironic that it if Obama limited himself to the african american community he would have never made the history books. It was first the wealthy Chicago liberals and then Iowa that led us to the election of the first black president.

Self-sabotaging behavior is not limited to african americans. Think how great thinkers like Galileo, Socrates, Newton had to deal with the societal pressure to conform versus their own paradigm shifting theories and discoveries.

It's like Morphoeus said in the Matrix, some people are comfortable in their oppression, in their delusions and will fight to the death anyone or thing that challenges their beliefs and threatens to bring about change. People often resist change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fairfaxian View Post
I'm not one for giving people every excuse in the book to continue in mediocrity, but historically, this is all fact. The thing that I propose out of this is not to use these "historical facts" as "present excuses" for the continuation of such impoverished living.

Also, it's not especially the fact that the current ghetto culture promoted in the media is the thing holding blacks back. It's the fact that they dispose it on each other as an expectation, hence the ideal of being "black enough." And it's not necessary the ones who are in the ghetto in general that are the biggest detriment to Black Americans (even though I do admit the % of people who live in the black ghettos yet don't bother with anybody are rather low). It's those who go off with no regard acting like the stereotype the "Liberal" media portrays them to be all while chastising those blacks who want to do something better with their lives than live like leeches/thugs/jiggaboos/Negros by calling them "sell-outs" and "white-washed." It's immature enough to display such behavior during one's childhood and teen years, but when the human conscious and maturity comes into fruition and one knows the general rule of what's right and what's wrong, displaying the same behavior is beyond sad and IMO out of reach for any sympathy from anyone. All the while these degenerates are not only allowed to commit such acts of atrocity and spew such garbage, they are elevated to leaders, role models, and living gods of the black community. It's these people who need to be knocked off of their thrones if anything positive is going to occur with the poor/working class blacks.



This I find true in places where "group/herd" mentality of thought holds true, which is mostly in the Old South and East Coast (including the more "liberal parts" of those regions). However, where the value of individuality and libertarianism are more of the rule-of-the-land (i.e. most of the Western US), it's possible for blacks to not stand out and just be "one of the crowd." The only major sacrifice is not being surrounded by other blacks; but it those were the same people whom most of the source of one's problems (as it is for most non-stereotypical blacks), why in the hell would you still want to be near such garbage. And in addition, how is wanting to be around other blacks any different than a white person saying "I want to mainly be around other whites!"

 
Old 06-13-2009, 11:12 AM
 
11 posts, read 24,026 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandpointian View Post
Nice points.

I would add that the tipping point is somewhere around age 10-10.5. In that zone of inflection, the transition between happy, resilient kid and pre-teen. The die has not yet been cast. Malleability is there. Mom (and hopefully Dad)'s words still carry the day. Peer pressure has not yet bared its teeth. The ability to compare lifestyles within the community and against others have not yet developed. Love is still considered the best thing. Kids are in elementary school, not junior high. Sexuality is still a couple of years off. Teacher discipline still holds sway. Accountability and responsibility still govern hearts. Teachers are no yet fatigued. Parents still have hope. Money is not really so huge a factor.

Within three years all can turn 180*.

S.
Very, very true. It is a race against the clock to save the next generation.....
 
Old 06-13-2009, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Bayou City Megaplex
2,978 posts, read 2,942,516 times
Reputation: 2411
Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
C) Many blacks, have been taught to be ethnocentric. Not afrocentric, but ethnocentric. They have been taught to stick with their ethnic background because as soon as one's guard is dropped and you trust others, you will be disrespected or made to feel inferior. Which I personally can attest to myself...Normally when you disregard color, and give people a chance to treat you as their equal, as soon they get comfortable enough to accept that you are not the stereotypical threat they once perceived you to be, then thats when the unwarranted racial jokes and ethnic slurs start flying. This has proven to be the case almost invariably (particularly in work environments)

Too, most blacks will also attest to the fact that, so often, no matter how much one wants to embrace cultures outside of the gangster rap culture, and be viewed as "just another face in the crowd"...those blacks will often STILL be pigeon holed into their stereotypes (whether warranted or not) and barred from receiving an unbiased perception of them; regardless of the fact that they show no indications of being a stereotypical so and so.
This is so true. On point, as always. This kind of insight speaks directly to the black experience, and it is indeed refreshing to see.
 
Old 06-13-2009, 06:44 PM
 
Location: The Land of Reason
13,169 posts, read 5,008,796 times
Reputation: 3373
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgadams View Post
Blacks and Hispanics are more likely to commit crimes than Eastern and Southern Asians. This is a fact and to those of you who say "All races commit crime! Stop being racist!", you are only preventing the problem from being acknowledged and solved.

Here are some statistics to prove how much more prone to crime Hispanics and Blacks are compared to whites and Asians. I posted this in another forum comparing Canada's and America's immigration systems.

49.97% of Toronto's population is foreign born.
59% of Miami is foreign born.
Miami's homicide rate is 19.6 per 100,000.
Toronto's homicide rate is 3.3 per 100,000!

There were 84 murders in Toronto (a city of 2.5 million) compared to 77 murders in Miami (a city of roughly 400,000).

Lets take a look at Census data for Toronto and Miami!

Toronto:

When adding up the East Asian groups, they make up 13.3% of Toronto's population. Southern Asians (the vast majority of which are Indians) make up 12% of the population. Southeast Asian groups make up another 5.6% of the population.

Essentially, Toronto's immigrant population is composed of mostly Southern and Eastern Asians.

Miami:

In miami, 66% of the population is of Hispanic origin (mostly Cuban). The city also has a very large Haitian community, but the census doesn't give reference to its exact numbers.

When linking the census data to the crime statistics in the post above, I do firmly believe that Asians are less likely to commit crime than Blacks or Hispanics.

Clearly, immigrants from China, India, Korea, and Taiwan cause less crime than immigrants from Latin America and the Caribbean. If more proof of this needs to be shown, it can be provided quite easily.

Statistic references:

Crime in Toronto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitors sites is not allowed
TheStar.com | GTA | A city of unmatched diversity
BBC NEWS | Americas | Miami tops 'foreign-born' cities

Demographics of Toronto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Miami city, Florida - DP-1. Profile of General Demographic Characteristics:**2000

this is an unfair comparision b/c Canada as a whole has a low murder rate as compared to any comparable city in the US.
 
Old 06-13-2009, 06:53 PM
 
Location: The Land of Reason
13,169 posts, read 5,008,796 times
Reputation: 3373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reelist in Atlanta View Post
This is an easy one, my friend from Milwaukee, but the explanation is one that nobody will talk about. IQ is the single most acurate predictor of success in life including success on the job. For people with IQs below 90, life is an uphill battle and folks with IQs below 70 are at high risk for failure. Even if not talked about, I think the following is obvious. People with low IQs:

- are more likely to be unemployed
- are more likely to be divorce
- are more likely to have illegitimate children
- are more likely to be incarcerated
- are more likely to be chronic welfare recipients
- are more likely to be high school drop outs

The average IQ of Blacks in this country is about 85. For Hispanics its slightly higher at around 87. The average IQ of Whites in this country is 100 with Asian IQ being slightly higher than that of Whites.

I know there are those who would claim that IQ tests are not accurate and that this difference is the result of culteral differences. But wouldn't there be a cultural difference for Asians as well? Also, there has been much study and research done on this issue. This is not just some 'off the wall' theory. Tests have been devised to be culturless using such things as shapes and reaction times and the results are the same. There have been tests devised to be culturally biased in favor of Blacks and Whites and Asians still out perform Blacks and Hispanics.

Before someone jumps in with the 'Not all blah blahs are bleep bleep. I know a lot of blahs who are not bleep', let me say that I am talking about averages here. Enough said about that.

- Reel
If I'm not mistaken, isn't a IQ based on the structure of one's education? From the way that you presented this shows that people of different races are born with a set IQ. If any adult is tested would'nt his score be attributed to the education that they recieved in their lifetime? Which brings to mind another point, the majority of black and Latinos attend poor public schools and therefore tend not to further their education unlike some priveledged few (i.e whites, Asians, Indians ect). Everything being equal there proably would not be a noticable difference.
 
Old 06-13-2009, 06:59 PM
 
Location: The Land of Reason
13,169 posts, read 5,008,796 times
Reputation: 3373
Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
You might be interested in this article. It is ironic that it if Obama limited himself to the african american community he would have never made the history books. It was first the wealthy Chicago liberals and then Iowa that led us to the election of the first black president.

Self-sabotaging behavior is not limited to african americans. Think how great thinkers like Galileo, Socrates, Newton had to deal with the societal pressure to conform versus their own paradigm shifting theories and discoveries.

It's like Morphoeus said in the Matrix, some people are comfortable in their oppression, in their delusions and will fight to the death anyone or thing that challenges their beliefs and threatens to bring about change. People often resist change.
You know it's interesting that you pointed this out. As an Black male living in one of Pittsburgh's worst neighborhoods (Hill District) I was never (nor some of my educated friends) were ever considered or called "sellouts, or not black enough" regarding our educational goals and now many of my friends are professionals and still come back to the "hood" for get togethers and such with never a probelm. I realize that type of behavior happens but I don't think that it happens as frequently as you may believe.
 
Old 06-13-2009, 07:19 PM
 
Location: The Land of Reason
13,169 posts, read 5,008,796 times
Reputation: 3373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milwaukee City View Post
Actually I praised the answer I got and commented on the fact they were great answers. I still hold true that any kid born after 1990 cannot blame his place in life on things that happened years ago. Now being born in the hood it takes a stronger individual to get out of that environment but kids born today have so many opportunities that they really can't make excuses it takes a lot more work for a black kid born in the hood to escape and I can appreciate the struggle to remove yourself from a terrible environment. But once you get out of a bad environment your mindset will change and it only gets easier once removed from the hood. In many cases this means leaving family behind temporarily. If my dad hadn't moved us out of inner city Milwaukee when I was 16 who knows where I would be. I see a correlation between my friends and me that made it out vs the ones who lived in the hood their whole life and a lot of them have been in and out of jail. You need good parents to survive in the hood and if you have a dad who doesn't care what you do then your decisions are all on a teenager and if he doesn't have anyone to keep him in line or role model to it's only up to him to change. It's easier to have a parent catch you from falling but having to catch yourself is a lot harder to do. I believe with Obama as president it offers a lot more hope to the kid in the projects that if he stay's on the right path you can achieve anything.
Unlike some of the other responders I have an opportunity to visit your city and quite honestly there really is not much of a difference than Pgh except than there tended to be a little more diversity.

Let me try to provide and answer to part of your statement. You are correct as far the children of today have a better chance of improving themselves i.e getting out of a bad environment, but it would be considerably easier if the child has a postive parent or role model that can mentor them in the right direction. As stated in a previous response I lived in the hood and managed to complete college, retire from the military and raise a family and two very responsible young men. I have seen other kids go completely the other way b/c their parents knew nothing but despair and most cases were uneducated for many reasons (poor schooling, lack of maturity of the parents, ect) Understand this, events from the past especially dealing with african americans have dug deep into our mental makeup and depending on the previous generation's ability to "shake it off" it will continue to haunt future generations.
 
Old 06-13-2009, 07:21 PM
 
4,085 posts, read 2,441,900 times
Reputation: 1170
Quote:
Originally Posted by simetime View Post
You know it's interesting that you pointed this out. As an Black male living in one of Pittsburgh's worst neighborhoods (Hill District) I was never (nor some of my educated friends) were ever considered or called "sellouts, or not black enough" regarding our educational goals and now many of my friends are professionals and still come back to the "hood" for get togethers and such with never a probelm. I realize that type of behavior happens but I don't think that it happens as frequently as you may believe.
That post was in response to a young black male who has said he has repeatably encountered that kind of behavior. AND if you read my post I stated that kind of behavior has happened across cultures and times even to the great thinkers of history.
 
Old 06-14-2009, 02:09 AM
 
1,718 posts, read 1,385,025 times
Reputation: 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by simetime View Post
If I'm not mistaken, isn't a IQ based on the structure of one's education? From the way that you presented this shows that people of different races are born with a set IQ. If any adult is tested would'nt his score be attributed to the education that they recieved in their lifetime? Which brings to mind another point, the majority of black and Latinos attend poor public schools and therefore tend not to further their education unlike some priveledged few (i.e whites, Asians, Indians ect). Everything being equal there proably would not be a noticable difference.
No, the scientists and researchers are not that dumb. An IQ test measures ones ability to learn and how quickly one learns. It is not a measure of how much one knows. Those are called Scholastic Achievement Tests not IQ tests.

IQ tests have been devised that do not require much, if any, actual knowledge. They use such things as shapes and reaction times. IQ has been, and continues to be, studied and researched quite a bit by people who know what they are doing.
 
Old 06-14-2009, 02:13 AM
 
1,718 posts, read 1,385,025 times
Reputation: 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milwaukee City View Post
I have never done this, all I said it seems like the majority.
I don't think its a majority. I think its an extremely visible minority. I will give you that this minority may be a higher percentage of the Black population than a similar minority is among the Asian population.
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