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Old 06-14-2009, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
1,668 posts, read 3,943,929 times
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I disagree. In Houston, our China/Asian town is very poor....ghetto. The ones who live in nicer suburban homes often have multiple generations working to pay the mortgage. (Can anyone say SINGLE FAMILY HOUSING???)

It's not always the case, but Asians are mostly the biggest offenders of of cramming into a single house.

 
Old 06-14-2009, 12:50 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,755,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LizzySWW View Post
I disagree. In Houston, our China/Asian town is very poor....ghetto. The ones who live in nicer suburban homes often have multiple generations working to pay the mortgage. (Can anyone say SINGLE FAMILY HOUSING???)

It's not always the case, but Asians are mostly the biggest offenders of of cramming into a single house.
The point in the original OP is refering to a general picture on ethnic/racial groups.

You are citing Houston as an example, however, does Houston oriental population reflect the national trend on the issues the OP brings up?

I have stated before on other messages below we are talking in general group observations. I am aware there are examples like the one you state.

However, in your comment you do not mention them as being a social problem when it comes to crime, poverty, delincuency, etc. on a national scale. Do you think that in a ration orientals have the problems the other groups have?

You have a great day.
El Amigo
 
Old 06-16-2009, 09:49 PM
 
Location: The Land of Reason
13,292 posts, read 10,101,303 times
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One other thing that I would like to point out, Asians and Latinos came to this country with cultural identies intact, unlike american blacks who through slavery and other social disruptions have lost theirs. This was the reason why "Roots" was a great sucess due to the difficulties of american blacks to find their ancestors
 
Old 06-16-2009, 10:52 PM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,013,914 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leaana View Post
this is another problem with american culture not so much with european culture and the stigma of lower-end jobs.

i was just in japan last year visiting some extended family and i was told that japan is not as class oriented as the west and the middle class i the majority including those working in the service industry. he was right and i saw what he was talking about. even when i was in korea, working at mcdonalds for instance is not nearly as depressing an option as it is in the states because of the cultural attitude that it's a job, period. there is not so much a derogatory stigma. also, it helps that the people you are working around seem like humans not just the dredge of society.

the idea one has to escape lower paying positions is saying there is something wrong with them and dirty work someone else should do. in america, i really understand it since i think i'd rather be dead than work in fast food in america and i've done during summer break before. also, the lower the job in america, the worse you are treated and people seem to be less respectful at those workplaces. contrary to what americans may assume, a lot of countries are not like that.

it's quite a different experience in some other countries as you don't feel you are being leveled to some metaphoric dark basement working with degenerates. um, unfortunately in america it does feel like that and you might be working around most degenerates. j/k, kind of since its kind of true.
I have to dsiagree about japan. Its another world entirely. In that world there are people that are very smart and still live in a small apartments at the near top management levels. You also work very long hours and if you quite your job ;you are basically blackballed as unfathful.Few companies will then hire you. It really hasn't changed much over the years since WWII.Also if you are a foreigner they definely look at you as lower class.That is why the japanese government wants to pay fopreigners to leave now days and they are serious.The real power that be in Japan loo at free thought like we are use to as dangerous and to that extent not much has changed since WWII. Instead of the government then; the company is in that place.
 
Old 06-17-2009, 05:04 AM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
16,469 posts, read 33,418,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LizzySWW View Post
I disagree. In Houston, our China/Asian town is very poor....ghetto. The ones who live in nicer suburban homes often have multiple generations working to pay the mortgage. (Can anyone say SINGLE FAMILY HOUSING???)

It's not always the case, but Asians are mostly the biggest offenders of of cramming into a single house.
I think that most recent immigrants are the ones that cram into a single house, and it's not usually a long term situation. What you have is all those family members working hard, maybe even several jobs, pooling their financial resources to start a business or buy real estate. Since they are out working all the time, having spacious living quarters would be a waste of their money. It's a shame that Americans in general can't be as focused on goals like theirs.

Anyway, most of the older first generation immigrants I know, after working hard for decades, all own their own dwellings (usually a practical three family house) and many of them even own rental properties. And you don't get that sort of personal wealth unless you are focused on your goals and do away with the frivolities like driving a fancy car, buying big screen tvs and visiting your favorite shopping malls once a week.
 
Old 06-17-2009, 11:29 AM
 
4,990 posts, read 4,453,373 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
I don't follow your logic. Mankind may have originated in Africa, but as groups of humans emigrated from Africa and to other parts of the world, they continued to evolve and change into Caucasians, Asians and other racial subgroups.
Most scientists have abandoned the concept of races. A lot of that race theory was basically pseudoscience used to justify white colonialism. There is only ONE human race though yes there are definitely variations within it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
And some groups of humans developed more advanced cultures than other ones. There is such a huge difference in development between an Australian aborigine and an Italian during the Renaissance. So while there are many DNA similarities between all humans, there are also some differences between the racial subgroups of humans. Just as domestic dogs have been developed by humans into different breeds and all with their varying characteristics of physical appearance, personality, special skills and levels of intelligence.
My you seem to be really steeped into pseudoscience race ideology. Y'know the ancient Greeks and Romans considered many of the other Europeans savages. In particular they considered the Germanic and Scandinavian people as savage barbarians incapable of civilized behavior without thorough Hellenization or latinized. It was in fact these "barbarians" that actually did bring about the collapse of culture and civilization in the West, twice in fact. First when norsemen brought about the fall of the Roman empire and later when the Vikings ravaged Europe.

Fast forward to the twentieth and twenty first century where Scandanavia has probably some of the most civilized societies on the planet. Very little crime, poverty and much prosperity while Germany has the 3rd largest economy. The ancient Northern and western Europeans were held by the Greeks and Romans with the same scorn and contempt you apparently have toward black people. And yet their descendants rose within the last three centuries to lead the entire globe (including greece and italy) in terms of science, technology, and culture. Almost similar in that it is now African Americans that are dominating in pop culture (among other nonblack americans and internationally in terms of sports, music, clothing) and a black man is now the leader of the most powerful country in the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
Blacks seem to excel in sports, so why can't other races have their special talent tendencies also?
If you read about the greco-roman accounts of the origins of philosophy, mathematics, and culture: Egypt and Ethiopia figure prominently (though other cultures are mentioned as well) in them. Herodotus, Plato, Aristotle among others credit Egypt (and sometimes Ethiopia) as being the source for much of ancient (and by extension modern) Western culture. AND the ancient greco-romans frequently refer to Nile dwellers as having black skin. Plus it was the Moors in Spain (Moor comes from the ancient greco-roman word for black) that took Iberia out of the Dark Ages brought about by your beloved blond and blue eyed nordic aryans. This reminds me of Brazil's Lula who said the world's financial crisis was not brought about by american indians, blacks or the poor but BY blue eyed, blond hair, white people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
So the first human beings originated from Africa, but many thousands of years later, the human subgroups do have some differences in their genetic makeup. And it's only natural that they do. It's just a part of the evolutionary process.
To put it in a nutshell, your argument is full of ****. Both kingdoms and empires of dark skinned people or light skinned people have risen to power throughout history. The race ideology you spew is an unfortunate legacy of the 18th and 19th century that has yet to die out though it has been greatly reduced. It is even ironic that you claim to be Asian and thus an inferior being in regards to the race ideology you adhere to.Someone should tell your white boyfriend to stop polluting our beloved white race's precious gene pool. After all the "cleansing" of inferior races is a natural process of evolution is it not?

Last edited by kovert; 06-17-2009 at 12:08 PM..
 
Old 06-17-2009, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Sandpoint, Idaho
2,880 posts, read 5,071,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
I have to dsiagree about japan. Its another world entirely. In that world there are people that are very smart and still live in a small apartments at the near top management levels. You also work very long hours and if you quite your job ;you are basically blackballed as unfathful.Few companies will then hire you. It really hasn't changed much over the years since WWII.Also if you are a foreigner they definely look at you as lower class.That is why the japanese government wants to pay fopreigners to leave now days and they are serious.The real power that be in Japan loo at free thought like we are use to as dangerous and to that extent not much has changed since WWII. Instead of the government then; the company is in that place.
I think Leanna's point is well-said. While there is no doubt that Japan, like elsewhere has classes, the society is quite "compressed" compared to the West and practically anywhere.

For years, Japan's score on the most popular measure of income inquality, the Gini coefficient, was ranked amongst the top 3 or so countries in industrialized world. Recent numbers seem to be all over the map. The OECD estimated it in 2006 at about .31, which I think is about right. In compartison the US number is anywhere from .41 to .45, only a shade better than emerging markets, which are usually around .50-.55. Given Japan is an industrial and technology powerhouse its Gini is quite low.

While I cannot say with any certainty whether the pre-War Japan was highly inequal, I can say with empirical certainty that Japan's income inequality has been quite low for most of the post-war era.

When I was in college, studying the "Japanese way" was all the rage. In the mid 80s, the ratio of CEO to Average worker salary was 7:1. At the time the US was I think about 25-40:1. Today, that ratio in Japan is 15-20:1 while in the US, the numbers are between 240-450:1.

High ranking civil servants, or famous professors and scientists make a good but fairly modest salary. At the top end, they look at the US in amazement, not at the its salary structure as envious but at how it is noth self-destructive and immoral.

At the low end, I have found as Leanna, that Japanese being somewhat fatalistic, accept their lot in life and proceed with considerable dignity and care. Note, I never had patience for my lot in life as dictated by my parents wealth/prestige or lack thereof. My Japanese friends from similar backgrounds are more content to make the most out of their situation without trying to "overachieve." Such an attitude from 8 to 80 results in far less stress apparent in management of daily lives.

The implication then is that Japan's sense of equality is deeply engrained in their culture.

Finally, note that their sense of culture has never included foreigners. They are among the least able to assimilate regardless of linguistic fluency or long-term residence. Korean Japanese that came over in waves since 1910 when Japan ruled over Korea, are still considered outsiders. This inability to absorb foreigners is a big reason for Japan's economic stagnation.

S.
 
Old 06-17-2009, 02:05 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
16,469 posts, read 33,418,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
Most scientists have abandoned the concept of races. A lot of that race theory was basically pseudoscience used to justify white colonialism. There is only ONE human race though yes there are definitely variations within it.
There are significant enough differences between the races to be able to note that blacks dominate the professional sports scene in the US. Are there even any Chinese professional football players? The Asians in general are just not big or muscular enough to be in pro football. And the same goes for pro basketball. Tall Chinese men that are coordinated enough to play basketball well on a professional level are a real rarity or oddity. Blacks have more fast twitch muscles than other races. And that makes sense to me as Africa is a very harsh and physically challenging continent to live in, especially since up until the last centuries, the quality of life there was so primitive. Even with the wildlife in Africa, it's very much a factor of survival of the most physcially fit, whether it be in strength or speed. So if blacks have physical advantages over some of the other races, why can't another race have mental superiority over blacks? And we're not talking by that many IQ points anyway. Then add in some differences in attitudes about life style due to their cultures, and the basic racial differences, however slight become magnified.

And at the time when blacks were being enslaved to work the plantations in the West Indies and then America, the native Africans had no written language and their histories were all passed down orally. IMO Egypt is in the northern most tip of the African continent and doesn't count as black history. Even if you do want to count Ancient Egyptian history as part of black history, those hieroglyphics were developed around 3100 B.C., then the use of hieroglyphics was stopped around 300 A.D., and until the Rosetta Stone was found and translated in 1822, the native ability to read the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics had been lost for about 1500 years. Whatever written language is in Africa now is due to European colonization. Certainly, none of the African tribes developed their own written skills independently.

There have been many interesting ancient civilizations in all parts of the world like Machu Picchu in Peru. But most of them would be still crumbled or buried under vegetation and lost to modern knowledge had not contemporary archeologists not uncovered and studied them. And for those "lost" civilizations, I don't see how any group can currently claim their heritage since their knowledge and understanding of them wouldn't exist without the intervention of archeologists. The continuity and blood lineage of generations was lost completely and would have stayed that way had American and European scholars not put great effort into studying them. And in many cases, members of those ancient civilizations were completely wiped out and later on, completely different human groups drifted into the same geographic area and filled in the human void there. Thus, those more recent human groups and their cultures are not at all related by blood to the previous inhabitants.

Last edited by miu; 06-17-2009 at 02:16 PM..
 
Old 06-17-2009, 03:16 PM
 
4,990 posts, read 4,453,373 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
There are significant enough differences between the races to be able to note that blacks dominate the professional sports scene in the US. Are there even any Chinese professional football players? The Asians in general are just not big or muscular enough to be in pro football. And the same goes for pro basketball. Tall Chinese men that are coordinated enough to play basketball well on a professional level are a real rarity or oddity. Blacks have more fast twitch muscles than other races. And that makes sense to me as Africa is a very harsh and physically challenging continent to live in, especially since up until the last centuries, the quality of life there was so primitive. Even with the wildlife in Africa, it's very much a factor of survival of the most physcially fit, whether it be in strength or speed.
So are you telling me a region that have produced judo, kung fu, karate, chi kung, samurai, Ghenghis Khan and the Mongol empire (which even threatened blond and blue eyed Europe by the way), defeated the French and the American military (Vietnam), muy thai is incapable of producing athletes tough enough for football and basketbal? LOL, you're really grasping for straws with this one.

Sports like boxing, football, basketball, (even baseball with teams heavily recruiting from Rep. Dom.) seems to attract those from tough socioeconomic backgrounds whether it from minority communities in the U.S. or from struggling nations in Eastern Europe and Latin America.

Oh and I see many tall Asian Americans and not only the men because I've come across some Asian American women over 5'8. I guess even superior asian genes and traditions can not withstand even more superior American big macs and fries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
So if blacks have physical advantages over some of the other races, why can't another race have mental superiority over blacks? And we're not talking by that many IQ points anyway. Then add in some differences in attitudes about life style due to their cultures, and the basic racial differences, however slight become magnified.
I'd like to see you cite a source for any race having mental superiority over another. A source within the past 10-15 years that ISN'T tied to a race ideology or supremacist group.

Back in the 60's, 70's and 80's blacks, Puerto Ricans and other groups were facing strong and even violent opposition for going to certain schools to get a quality education. As I posted earlier in the thread the crack-cocaine epidemic had a strong cultural reverbations that pushed urban culture in a direction opposite of the goals of the CR movement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
And at the time when blacks were being enslaved to work the plantations in the West Indies and then America, the native Africans had no written language and their histories were all passed down orally. IMO Egypt is in the northern most tip of the African continent and doesn't count as black history. Even if you do want to count Ancient Egyptian history as part of black history, those hieroglyphics were developed around 3100 B.C., then the use of hieroglyphics was stopped around 300 A.D., and until the Rosetta Stone was found and translated in 1822, the native ability to read the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics had been lost for about 1500 years. Whatever written language is in Africa now is due to European colonization. Certainly, none of the African tribes developed their own written skills independently.
True current written languages in Africa was brought by outsiders. But the northern and western Europeans got their written languages from outsiders too. The Greeks and the Romans gave them their writing. It was from the Arabs and Indians from which they later got the decimal numeral system we use today. Oh and once again it was the ancient greco-romans in their own writings who stated where much of their civilization originated from and what those people looked like.


Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
There have been many interesting ancient civilizations in all parts of the world like Machu Picchu in Peru. But most of them would be still crumbled or buried under vegetation and lost to modern knowledge had not contemporary archeologists not uncovered and studied them. And for those "lost" civilizations, I don't see how any group can currently claim their heritage since their knowledge and understanding of them wouldn't exist without the intervention of archeologists. The continuity and blood lineage of generations was lost completely and would have stayed that way had American and European scholars not put great effort into studying them. And in many cases, members of those ancient civilizations were completely wiped out and later on, completely different human groups drifted into the same geographic area and filled in the human void there. Thus, those more recent human groups and their cultures are not at all related by blood to the previous inhabitants.
I agree, why should people take pride and glory in something which they themselves did not accomplish or had a hand in. I mean hypothetically, should an Asian American women who claims she grew up nice, comfortable and pampered in lily white suburbia all her life take pride from the asian immigrants that live in cramped, overcrowded apartments in ethnic ghettos, working 10 hrs or more for below minimun wage and yet through perserverance manage to become business and home owners and raise children to become professionals. Or even more ludricious if this same Asian American women was a firm believer in a race ideology which describes herself as an inferior being. Oh and to top it off she is even violating that ideology by polluting the pure white gene pool with her own inferior bloodline. Ridiculous, is it not?
 
Old 06-17-2009, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Mequon, WI
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