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Old 07-23-2009, 10:09 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia,New Jersey, NYC!
6,967 posts, read 17,750,912 times
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my question is, in america why is it always white americans vs americans (non white) & minorities. its sad that where even discussing this shiiite


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Old 07-23-2009, 11:06 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
4,462 posts, read 8,202,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john_starks View Post
my question is, in america why is it always white americans vs americans (non white) & minorities. its sad that where even discussing this shiiite


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Old 07-23-2009, 11:18 PM
 
Location: Washington
843 posts, read 1,104,737 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
That only applies if you're willing to ignore the facts surrounding Gates' arrest.
No, that applies with the facts of that case.

Try for a second to take race out of the scenario. Pretend all parties involved were white.

Now: person sees you trying to get into your house, and calls the cops you one. A rational person would be peeved at this situation.

Now, after expressing your frustration to the policeman, he arrests you in your own home. You did not break the law, you simply vented your frustation and the policeman did not like your tone, so he arrested you. Again all parties white.

If we live in a nation where it does not matter if you are breaking the law, cops can arrest you because you annoy them, or they think you are not paying adequate respect (which is not legally required...they are cops, not kings or judges), then we are in a police state.

Now add on top of all that, 60 years of bad relations with police and a negative racial history between white cops and black people (especially in well to do neighborhoods), and you have exactly what occurred.

Blaming Gates would be holding him to a higher standard than we hold ourselves. Hes human, he was pissed, and it was understandable to be.
 
Old 07-23-2009, 11:55 PM
 
31 posts, read 31,783 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
Why should Gates blame the criminals for the way he was treated? Yes, there are many black people out there who committ crimes. With that said, why should Gates suffer because people who look like him committ crimes? Why? The only reason Gates should be made at blacks who commit crimes(or anyone who commits a crime) is because of the victims who suffer from it. That is the only reason why. Your statement leaves out one important factor:The Victim(or survivor of the crime). The victim is the one who suffers because the victim has to live with it. Yes, blacks statistically have higher crime rates in relation to the percentage of the population they make up. On that note, most black people who commit crimes do so against other black people. Something else to think about. On the news you might hear reports about blacks committing crimes, but that is most of what you hear. The current media has an agenda and if you don't take everything with a grain of salt, you fall prey to the agenda. The news doesn't always tell you everything, only what sells. What about the white-collar crimes like computer hacking, credit card fraud, identity theft, the persons who sent the defective Chevy Malibus to people and the gas tank exploded, maiming many people, embezzlement. You see many white people committing those crimes, but I don't see white people being held to a higher scrutiny as blacks for it. Gates should only blame the persons who committed those crimes for high victimhood of African-Americans. He shouldn't blame them for his problem. His problem rests with the persons who believe everything they hear on TV, it rests with the persons who really are prejudice and who feel like African-Americans are no good. That is who Gates should blame. The blame rests with the persons who think in such ignorant ways.

you must have missed my post on page 77 about how like half of the blacks i worked and know are 1 person away from a homicide/attempted homicide. im calling it how i see it. im not racist, far far from it im just telling you waht i see and its the opposite of what i expected and originally believed. i used to think it was poverty that led to all the murders but its poverty that leads to the robberies while all the murders happen at parties (alcohol) , bars (alcohol) and drive bys and they are priamrily (like 85%) committed by blacks in my town. i know more people in milwaukee that have been robbed by black men than i know milwaukee bucks fans. thats not a joke! its only 7-10 people but still.
 
Old 07-24-2009, 12:32 AM
 
31 posts, read 31,783 times
Reputation: 19
[quote=john_starks;9921255]my question is, in america why is it always white americans vs americans (non white) & minorities. its sad that where even discussing this shiiite

/quote]

this is about crime and social development. asians and indians arent in this debate a whole lot because they are committing less crimes. a lot of races are doing fine and i think we see some races struggling and we cant figure out whats wrong. condoms are free at planned parenthood and a few dollars at the store but somehow std rates for blacks are 3+ times higher than other races and single mothers is also many times higher. i think as a white i am confused as to how the sink hole is so big for blacks in my town.
its hard for whites to talk with blacks about some of this stuff because, like i said, half the blacks i know have done some really ignorant stuff like run hit their boyfriend with a car (that was my manager) or be a getaway driver in a robbery or have an abortion every year because their boyfriend doesnt like to wear condoms, so im not going to say anything to those blacks because they might stab me. they randomly say stuff like that about stabbing and punching random co workers in wierd fits of rage. im not kidding. its toned down a bit as 2 black girls were fired and one is gone having a baby without a father and the other girl has come to terms with being a single pregnant mother. seriously

im just being as real and up front as possible and from what ive seen so far it comes down to graduating high school/education and emotional intelligence and all your hub ub about poverty is a blanket lame duck answer. after you are 24 you can go to college even if your parents dont have any money as long as you dont have a felony. a dad around the house to make sure the kids act right and finish school and to help pay the bills is also a positive. if the parents arent smart enough to teach the kids about education and college then media and society need to step in and help and i work in markets that are going to do just that.

so how do you get people to follow through and graduate high school and respect human life? they need a purpose. we need to side step the alienation and confusion help them (any lost person) understand what they care about and how they can fit in and where to go. im producing an album for a young black friend of mine and giving him all the advice and help he needs to follow through with it but also making sure he is a realist and stays in school and goes to college. he's on that path on his own and while im around im further enforcing it all the way. america is actually pretty easy to handle (obviously the recession changes things a bit) once you get a good picture painted of how to get by.
 
Old 07-24-2009, 06:16 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,453,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tindo80 View Post
Blaming Gates would be holding him to a higher standard than we hold ourselves. Hes human, he was pissed, and it was understandable to be.
I'm a white guy living in a pretty much all-black neighborhood.

If somebody called the cops on me because they saw me muscling my way into my house through a jammed door, I'd be a bit relieved that the neighbors are keeping an eye on my house.

If a black policeman came to my door, rang the doorbell and told me there was a call about a suspected robbery in place, I'd be surprised.

If said policeman asked me what I was doing there, I'd tell him I live there, and that if he doesn't believe me all he has to do is look at my ID. If asked to see it, I'd show it to him.


THAT is all Gates had to do. Instead, his enormous ego got him shooting off his big mouth even before the cop asked for his ID. And after he showed the cop his ID, and the cop was leaving the house, Gates followed him out of the house screaming and yelling at him (shoot, you even have a picture of Gates, in cuffs, screaming his fool head off at a BLACK cop).

Gates obviously thinks he's above the law, and that special circumstances apply to him. He is wrong.



By the way, why won't any of you address the FACT that one of the cops there is a black cop? And why not address the fact that this particular cop teaches racial profiling, as an exemplary record, and has the full support of the Police Union?
 
Old 07-24-2009, 07:05 AM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,232,709 times
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Something like a thousand people a year in the US are arrested on no specific charges and then released the next day. Blacks are more likely to have this happen in per-capita terms, but in raw-numbers more whites have this happen.

I think the argument for this is to reduce crime or because mistakes are inevitable or something. Anyway yes we live in a country where yelling at cops, and not giving them what they want, can get you arrested. Maybe legally it can't, but it does. I'm very white and it was pretty well taught to us you have to be pleasant when cops arrive whatever reason they have.

I still feel bad for Gates understand, still side more with him, but I think he did make mistakes. Just because you're well-educated and published doesn't mean you can treat cops like a citizen coming into your house without asking. They aren't regular citizens, they are authority figures with weapons. You should treat them like any heavily armed person who works for the state.
 
Old 07-24-2009, 07:40 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,453,494 times
Reputation: 3868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Something like a thousand people a year in the US are arrested on no specific charges and then released the next day. Blacks are more likely to have this happen in per-capita terms, but in raw-numbers more whites have this happen.

I think the argument for this is to reduce crime or because mistakes are inevitable or something. Anyway yes we live in a country where yelling at cops, and not giving them what they want, can get you arrested. Maybe legally it can't, but it does. I'm very white and it was pretty well taught to us you have to be pleasant when cops arrive whatever reason they have.

I still feel bad for Gates understand, still side more with him, but I think he did make mistakes. Just because you're well-educated and published doesn't mean you can treat cops like a citizen coming into your house without asking. They aren't regular citizens, they are authority figures with weapons. You should treat them like any heavily armed person who works for the state.
You're right.

Both Gates and Obama are two highly intelligent, professional Black men who should have kept their mouths shut until they knew the facts. Neither did, and both are going to pay a high price for it.



There are several other points of that I'd like to see some of the "pro-Gates" people address:
1. In the picture, where Gates is on his porch and still yelling, there is a black cop in front of him. Is this black cop also a racist? What gives?
2. There had, apparently, been at least one burglary (or attempted burglary) at the Gates home recently. Is there some reason the neighbors and police would NOT have been on "extra-alert"?
3. There was apparently another man with Gates - both of whom were admittedly "muscling" a jammed front door open. Who was that man, and why have we heard nothing from him in support of Gates, or support of Officer Crowley?
 
Old 07-24-2009, 08:09 AM
 
1,467 posts, read 1,880,791 times
Reputation: 22487
These are just my basic thoughts on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
1. In the picture, where Gates is on his porch and still yelling, there is a black cop in front of him. Is this black cop also a racist? What gives?
Per the police report, the police officer told Gates that they could continue the conversation outside. Gates stated that he went outside to get the badge number and once he stepped out the police officer thanked him, and then arrested him. Of course, the police officer could not arrest Gates for disorderly conduct inside his home. The officer only had authority to do that once Gates stepped outside. So, the picture shows Gates yelling because he was surpised that he was getting arrested. As you know, the police officer has a different account of the events.


As for the Black cop being on the scene, I am not sure what you are getting at. How does that negate Gates' claim?


2. There had, apparently, been at least one burglary (or attempted burglary) at the Gates home recently. Is there some reason the neighbors and police would NOT have been on "extra-alert"?

Yet, the police report makes no mention that the police officer was even aware that there had been a recent attempted burglary at the home. Who is saying that the police officer knew this beforehand? Definitely, the facts have come out after this incident. Had the police officer been aware of this beforehand, I am sure he probably would have put that in his report -- just to cover all bases.


The reports are now mixed on whether it was the neighbor or not. A neighbor could possibly been aware of a recent burglary attempt. A passerby would not have been. Still, I do wonder why the neighbor did not see the luggage.

3. There was apparently another man with Gates - both of whom were admittedly "muscling" a jammed front door open. Who was that man, and why have we heard nothing from him in support of Gates, or support of Officer Crowley?

The other man was the driver who brought Gates home. He was the one who carried the luggage to the door. He also had left before the police officer arrived. Again, I wonder why the neighbor (or passerby) did not see this. Surely the car must have been parked out front.
 
Old 07-24-2009, 09:06 AM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,232,709 times
Reputation: 6657
Black cops are sometimes harsher to blacks to prove themselves. There was a second-season episode of Homicide: Life on the Street where Yaphet Kotto's character asked Andre Braugher's character "which side are you on?" (Meaning the police or the black community) He was hoping he'd answer "the police." Even in cases where they're not harsher I think there are many cops, regardless of race, who are much more loyal to their "brothers in arms" than to anything else. (And yes Homicide is fiction, but the first two seasons were largely based on a nonfiction book so might conceivably have been a reflection of some kind of reality)

A white cop overreacts to some elderly black civilian? Let's say does so even for, unstated, racist reasons? Well I think it's likely in such a case a black cop will side with the white cop he knows over the civilian he may not know. Particularly if said civilian appears "privileged."
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