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Old 07-24-2009, 01:26 PM
 
812 posts, read 2,078,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
Leanna, I've always been curious about japanese anime. I have read the characters look the way they do because of influence from Disney but to me the characters look straight up white. I have watched the Death Note anime and seen clips of the live action Japanese version and there is a clear difference how the Japanese characters look in the anime and the live action version. Why does anime have characters that look more Euro rather than east asian?
i think it's the western advancement in the past five hundred years. then being exposed to american culture. the modern forms of entertainment produced by whites such as film as well as fashion and models etc. this was something new to asians. since modern forms of fashion and beauty were portrayed by whites, it seemed the more natural and detached course to first use whites as the characters in modern forms of entertainment as well since they were so unfamiliar with all the cultural indiosyncrasies and manners etc. this until asians became more comfortable in acclimating themselves to modern culture. also whites look so different from asians that it fascinated them and watching whites portray thier own features and style. in anime, the eyes are exaggerated very large because of this and the colored hair. i would have to say though anime characters are inspired by whites, they just are a creature of thier own species as well. many have blue, purple, pink etc hair and usually odd features such as a very small mouth, heart-shaped face and eastern hair styles and local fashion. there are some cultural elements and beauty ideals from asian cultures implemented with western inspired to create the hyperanime character. a good example is final fantasy where some characters look part human and part supernatural with some ethnic features and different coloring inspired by viewing white hair and eye colors. there are anime stories with main asian characters but they tend to be more serious.

 
Old 07-24-2009, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Washington
843 posts, read 1,104,737 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
I'm a white guy living in a pretty much all-black neighborhood.

If somebody called the cops on me because they saw me muscling my way into my house through a jammed door, I'd be a bit relieved that the neighbors are keeping an eye on my house.
Do you think most people would have the same idea you would? Whites, blacks, natives, hispanics, pretty much most people I know would get pissed if some stranger called the cops on them thinking the house they were going into was too good for them to be in.

Quote:
If a black policeman came to my door, rang the doorbell and told me there was a call about a suspected robbery in place, I'd be surprised.

If said policeman asked me what I was doing there, I'd tell him I live there, and that if he doesn't believe me all he has to do is look at my ID. If asked to see it, I'd show it to him.
Fair enough, but according to the report, thats exactly what Gates did. He vented his frustration, but he cooperated. Is venting your frustration and responding to a 60 year VERY common and commonly known racial disparity between black well to dos and white cops in white neighborhoods illegal?

Is it worth the officers time to arrest him for something he knows would be dropped later? Or was the officer just trying to make an example of Gates, being insulted that any person (black, professor, whatever) would dare lip off to him? Thats a 'police state' attribute.

Quote:


By the way, why won't any of you address the FACT that one of the cops there is a black cop? And why not address the fact that this particular cop teaches racial profiling, as an exemplary record, and has the full support of the Police Union?
I can address it easily. I do not think the black cop was the arresting officer, according to the report.

Also, as I said TAKE RACE OUT OF IT FOR A SECOND THEN THINK ABOUT IT.

Even if Gates where white, or both cops were black, the fact that the officers abused their discretion and arrested a man in his own home, mainly to humiliate him, is wrong, and not legal.

People are letting the big race issue cloud their minds. Gates supporters are only seeing it as a big racial reflection issue. The officers supporters are claiming racism does not exist or in some cases supporting the officer out of their own dislike for african americans.

Take race out of the equation and look at it again. If race were not a factor, we all would never have heard about this, but it would still be really messed up.
 
Old 07-24-2009, 05:04 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,453,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tindo80 View Post
Even if Gates where white, or both cops were black, the fact that the officers abused their discretion and arrested a man in his own home, mainly to humiliate him, is wrong, and not legal.
I'm sorry, but that statement just destroyed ALL your credibility.

Claiming to know - for a fact - why the cops did what they did is asinine. It also goes against the actual facts that keep surfacing about this case.


Yep, just LOOK at those horrible racist cops abusing poor Henry Gates...
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07212009/photos/louis_gates_arrest.jpg (broken link)
 
Old 07-24-2009, 09:08 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,453,494 times
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The black officer, present when Gates was arrested, apparently is in 100% support of the arrest.

Black officer at Gates home during arrest said scholar acted strange, supports arrest -- chicagotribune.com

So Gates is starting to look more and more like and out-of-control egomaniac. Even the black officer, on the scene, says he should have been arrested.


In addition, Officer Crowley is thinking about suing Gates for defamation. I hope he does. Perhaps then, people the likes of Gates, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton will start to think twice before they shoot off their mouths and accuse everyone of being racists. Enough is enough.

Obama Called Cambridge Police Officer James Crowley Who Arrested Henry Louis Gates - ABC News
 
Old 07-24-2009, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Rochester, N.Y
2,725 posts, read 3,960,411 times
Reputation: 4650
I started reading this thread at about twelve oclock eastern time. I have made it to page 63. I don't claim to be the most knowledgeable about world history. I must admit that I have learned a lot today from both sides of the argument.

I understand history means something, but it doesn't neccessarily mean everything. I hear the word lineage being thrown around with the premise that without understanding ones own lineage that the end result would create many negative consequences to the individual. I don't have all the answers and I will not pretend I do.

However, I find it hard to believe that "lineage" would somehow make or break a person. I know many friends of mine that don't even know what ethnicity they are. I don't see it impact them whatsoever. I don't believe that knowing your past history is as important as some are making it out to be. I am half Italian and half french, but know nothing beyond my grandparents. It honestly doesn't make the least difference in my life.

As far as this notion that blacks have to work two or three times as hard as whites; has become very off putting to say the least. If so, explain? If a worker shovels 10 thousand pounds of **** a day, would that same worker if black shovel 20 thousand, assumedly ten thousand more than the white without the white knowing. Is there some work conspiracy that I do not know about? It just doesn't add up no matter how I look at it, or others spin it.

As far as schooling,

With the availability of financial aid and loans, everyone can go to school; assuming everyone who wants to go to school applies themselves enough to become accepted. Even if they don't, that's what community college is for. They accept everyone. Everyone as far as I see it can go to college.

All in all with everything I have read. It is nice to have been educated on some things. I do agree that black people have had a raw deal; however, it has become the main focus, instead of asking the most pertinent question; which I believe is what then can we do (black and white) to overcome it?

Blaming white people today who are not and should not be responsible for the past of other europians is not the answer. Like I said, I am half french and half Italian. My ancestors came over around 1930. Neither took part in slavery, or believed in it. So I don't feel sympathy for what I had nothing to do with. Nor should I. I have empathy; but alas that only runs so far. I too get tired of hearing the excuses.

This thing about look around a college classroom and how many blacks will you count. I have to say not many, since there are over ten times as many white people as blacks in this country. That should amount to three for every thirty whites per class. That would be completely equal.

As far as this notion that blacks have a lower median I.Q. than whites. I simply don't believe it. If the average is truly 70, that would be borderline mentally retarded, which I don't think is the case. Again, I have seen no numbers to verify or discount. I am only going by what I know the legal definition of retardation to be. That is anyone who scores under 70.

I am not trying to make this any sort of pissing contest. I just wanted to clarify my thoughts on a few things before I adress the point at which I decided to share my insight.

What we are all ignoring is simply this. If all of these atrocities towards black people have occured to the exact extent to what has been revealed. If this is the case, and here is my point,--What then can we do about it? What will it take for black people to move on, for lack of a better term? Would an outright and open apology from all white people in this country fix it? I'll answer--I don't think so. However, I just don't think that continuously talking about it is making anything any better from any side. It is only angering the "whites" who feel helpless to the hatred that they had no hand in; thus leading the blacks to feel even more angrier because of the lack of acknowledgement on their part for their long histories struggles. In any case, it is truly only driving us away from each other.

Part of history is to learn from it. I can be sure, that slavery withing our country will never be again. However, this appears to not make any difference to the extent of damage already done.

So again, what can we do about it? Take the time to really ask that to yourself, white and black. Because I personally don't think there is a thing any of us could do or say to make up for that suffering. So where does that lead us?

I think forgiveness and acceptance is the only viable option when it is all said and done. If we can forgive (not forget) and accept these things in which so many have harboured for many years, and rightfully so; then maybe we can overcome this and start looking towards the future with less anger and hatred in our hearts as well as for what hasn't happened yet in our own peronal lives. We need to stop projecting negative feelings into how we perceive others will view us moving forward with our own personal goals.

Acceptance is the only key to our individual happiness. Without it, we stay lost in the past and our efforts toward the future is paved with invisible barriers that will then lie within our own minds..
 
Old 07-24-2009, 10:36 PM
 
Location: Washington
843 posts, read 1,104,737 times
Reputation: 332
^ Thats a long post.
 
Old 07-24-2009, 10:39 PM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,087,903 times
Reputation: 1814
Quote:
Originally Posted by supermanpansy View Post
I started reading this thread at about twelve oclock eastern time. I have made it to page 63. I don't claim to be the most knowledgeable about world history. I must admit that I have learned a lot today from both sides of the argument.

I understand history means something, but it doesn't neccessarily mean everything. I hear the word lineage being thrown around with the premise that without understanding ones own lineage that the end result would create many negative consequences to the individual. I don't have all the answers and I will not pretend I do.

However, I find it hard to believe that "lineage" would somehow make or break a person. I know many friends of mine that don't even know what ethnicity they are. I don't see it impact them whatsoever. I don't believe that knowing your past history is as important as some are making it out to be. I am half Italian and half french, but know nothing beyond my grandparents. It honestly doesn't make the least difference in my life.

As far as this notion that blacks have to work two or three times as hard as whites; has become very off putting to say the least. If so, explain? If a worker shovels 10 thousand pounds of **** a day, would that same worker if black shovel 20 thousand, assumedly ten thousand more than the white without the white knowing. Is there some work conspiracy that I do not know about? It just doesn't add up no matter how I look at it, or others spin it.
I would like to address these as I think you could be drawing from my posts.


I mentioned lineage for the same reason that someone else mentioned how Asians of past came here, performed cheap labor, and sent money for OTHER ASIANS to come and do the same until a communal pool of wealth could be amassed -- Because investment in respective community and culture proliferates wealth within that culture and community.

I understand that those same Asians lived in a state of poverty and disenfranchisement as well.. However they A) Have a shorter history in this country B) They were allowed to maintain most of their cultural ways if they so choose. C) They were paid some wages and were able to reinvest into their respective community. Though "Chinatowns" originated as Chinese ghettos, they also served the purpose of cultural continuity and capital reinvestment of wealth within the Chinese community etc. IMO those elements of socioeconomic progression matter. Especially if we are surveying groups interculturally.

In short, I mentioned lineage because the length/extension and cultural components impacting EVERY culture's lineage have largely determined the position that each culture is in today. Does it, anymore, dictate whether they can advance from here? Not hardly as much as in years past.

I also am the person who stated that blacks must work three (two) times harder than whites...I state that because shoveling dirt IMO is minimizing the reality of our current society. If we were still a blue collar society where education werent an imperative, that analogy may apply. However today, where technology rules, excelling in technology requires access to technology. But more so in blue collar work, blacks face heightened competition from immigrants who may work for lower wages. Its similar to how whites must compete with Asian/Indian immigrants in the white collar sector; while those same Asian/Indian immigrants often receive training for much cheaper than it costs to attend a college. Asians/Indians are often trained cheaply oversees for purposes of American outsourcing. After which, they usually migrate, with their acquired skill, to America.

But the most abrupt and poignant explanation I would give is because of the long ingrained negative perception of blacks in this country. Blacks are not assumed to be smart, intellectually capable, as much as they are perceived to be athletes, expert entertainers, criminals etc. Until this changes, this puts blacks on unequal footing from the outset of their lives. They must disprove what they arent before they can even prove who they are, as a person. As well, even middle class blacks of this generation are overwhelmingly first generation middle class blacks who's parents/forefathers lacked access to equal education and subsequently were unable to place proper emphasis on education to their offspring. Education, as is often stated, is the key to success.

I wont backtrack and reoutline everything I said as it pertains to the historical context of the black experience. But you did ask for an explanation. And I do think the lineage, and tradition that are culturally ingrained impact progeny. The same is said of Asians however with a more positive constitution. Most people here contend that Asians are smarter and more successful because it has historically been a cultural tradition for them. Thus expectations are set. However when the educational deprivation that occurred to blacks is noted, no one seems to acknowledge that their culture is equally impacted by a historical (denial of equal access to..) and subsequent cultural DE-emphasis on education in my opinion. That doesnt mean that blacks must forever be victims or that every Asian will excel. But as it stands, for now it kind of just is what it is; yet not what it has to be.

Last edited by solytaire; 07-24-2009 at 11:33 PM..
 
Old 07-25-2009, 12:55 AM
 
812 posts, read 2,078,812 times
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^from a practical pov, even acknowledgeing this isn't going to change or improve anything. this has been rehashed many times in american society and the issues of black slavery and the impact on african-american history and community.

the truth is it's only african-americans and their families who can make the difference now by their choices. all the stigmas etc are something everyone these days deal with. as a matter of fact, i strongly disagree with your pov that seems to be hint that other successful minorities are somehow at fault or that african-americans should be considered first-class priority or citizens rather than other minorities, this is akin to typical racist attitudes. there is affirmative action and asians are routinely passed over because they are so represented in schools and such. asians do not have it easier. oriental asians especially are resented by african-americans and whites alike in america and it's extremely difficult for them to integrate because of this. it's not even unusual for african-americans and whites to gang up on asians together. african-americans and whites have much more elbow room to be themselves and be accepted.

there is very little excuses left. yes, the aftermath exists from before but if some african-americans continue to exacerbate the problem then you can't keep pointing fingers at everyone else or anything else and expect any change in the african-american community. it is just counterproductive.

there really isn't much excuses left collectively speaking, individually of course as there will always be people who fall through the cracks or just by circumstances.

your citing of 'negative' perceptions of african-americans, expectations or nonexpectations does not have any real practical application in actual life. this is not stopping african-americans, it's african-americans that are if they choose. negative perceptions is something everyone deals with depending on what stigma or stereotype exists at any given time for any group. these 'expectations' you assume about asian success actually make it more difficult because asians students or asians are often not paid any attention to or assumed to not need assistance. this can even get more racist and intentional and they can be shunned, turned away or even undermined on purpose. asians, especially oriental asians face a hell of a lot more social stigma than african-americans starting from school and on up. this IS why they work hard and study because in a society of so much racial stigma and tension, the only relatively stable place asians can fit in is either opening their own business or in higher positions around more intelligent and conscientious people. the other stratuses of society are heavily prejudiced and territorial because they are usually less intelligent and therefore more petty. african-americans have a lot easier time being accepted in more areas of society than asians do including white collar. if african-americans are not as represented there, it is not asians or other minorities holding them down.

that said, i really don't think african-americans will have much competition from anyone including asians. asian-americans are becoming stupid with each successive generation. they are assimilating to the culture and don't care too much about education, they are more concerned that they are thought of as cool or accepted. i can't tell them apart from anyone else. as a matter of fact, their value system can discriminate against asians ironicly. they are as brainwashed (deservedly because they are dull) and parrotlike of all the pc and rhetoric and current value system as anyone else. they just look asian on the outside. these struggles apply to what asian-americans consider more 'fob' asians.

Last edited by leaana; 07-25-2009 at 01:51 AM..
 
Old 07-25-2009, 01:25 AM
 
Location: Washington
843 posts, read 1,104,737 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
I'm sorry, but that statement just destroyed ALL your credibility.

Claiming to know - for a fact - why the cops did what they did is asinine. It also goes against the actual facts that keep surfacing about this case.


Yep, just LOOK at those horrible racist cops abusing poor Henry Gates...
Did you read ANY OF THE STATEMENTS of the report given?

I think you just destroyed any modicum of lack of bias in your opinion statements on the issue.

No one said the cops were racist, other than YOU, who seem to be yelling and crying about it as if anyone arguing with you is saying that (proving that you dont read posts you reply to).

I have said, not 3 times is that if you look at the scenario sans race, You could understand why the guy flew off the handle and why the police acted excessively.

It sounds like you are so hung up on some anti-black bias, that you cant see the situation as anything other than 'angry black gets what he deserves by cops', which is ironically enough the very same thing, in vice versa, of what you are accusing others of.

I find it laughable now that I think about it. :lol: Perhaps I should not have attempted to engage you in objective debate.
 
Old 07-25-2009, 07:43 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,453,494 times
Reputation: 3868
Quote:
Originally Posted by tindo80 View Post
No one said the cops were racist, other than YOU...
Ummmm... Excuse me? Are you KIDDING me?
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