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Old 08-02-2009, 02:46 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
True, I agree with that...a large part of being able to mask ones issues is directly related to income. But then too the same could be said of the experiences of the rappers that the earlier poster recounted. Most rappers do so because they have very little to offer in the way of a truly marketable skill. And they generally come from impoverished backgrounds with a need to earn money, quickly.

That said, the blacks described as rappers by the previous poster, are not among the higher echelon of the black race either..

yet for the within this thread their experiences have been upheld as being representative of a pervasive problem among blacks in general.
Right.

Rap Music is just one genre, but seems to be over-run with negative, violent and disrespectful tones and lyrics. For the most part, it seems to glorify all the wrong things, and some of the artists hide behind lofty-sounding things such as "artistic integrity" and "freedom of speech" to spew out filthy garbage.

The fact that something rhymes doesn't mean it's poetry. And the presence of a beat doesn't automatically make something music or art.

 
Old 08-02-2009, 02:57 PM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,087,903 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
Right.

Rap Music is just one genre, but seems to be over-run with negative, violent and disrespectful tones and lyrics. For the most part, it seems to glorify all the wrong things, and some of the artists hide behind lofty-sounding things such as "artistic integrity" and "freedom of speech" to spew out filthy garbage.

The fact that something rhymes doesn't mean it's poetry. And the presence of a beat doesn't automatically make something music or art.

Right on all points there... except for the last part..dont you think thats kind of subjective?...I mean originally no one considered rock and roll 'music' either

But I will attempt to amend one of your points though....mainstream/popular rap music is overrun with negative, violent and disrespectful lyrics...there is a vast quantity of even rap music that doesnt contain much if any of those types of lyrics...(*granted its not the majority of it*)

however, like the film industry, sex violence and drugs sell..especially within the context of storytelling...in this society, people actually gravitate towards those elements of entertainment...its one of the reasons rock n roll eventually became trendy. ('sex, drugs, rock n roll')
 
Old 08-02-2009, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
878 posts, read 2,490,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
This is so true...I have met people from all walks of life including whites who have more issues than anyone should know about...but they are relatively discrete and discerning about who they choose to disclose their issues with.

I have worked with whites who have taken 6 week "vacations" to attend drug rehab for cocaine habits...I have worked with whites who have been investigated for charges of racketeering. I have gone to lunch with whites whom I discovered actually smoked pot on their lunch break...

I could go on but my point is that even though these whites appeared as typical, professional, working class people in the office environment, I never extracted from those few anomalous interactions with them, that those experiences represented something fundamentally wrong with the white culture in general....I guess I just wasn't looking for a pattern based on their race.
I hear what you're saying. In my work life, I have encountered numerous people of varying races that have personal issues, as you have described above but I never make a connection that they are representative of their race. They are just representative of themselves. The sad thing is that for some people, a negative personal issue with a Black person reinforces their stereotype of Blacks in general, which is wrong.

Out of all the things that the poster that I quoted stated, there was not one positive thing that was listed about these people and I do not believe that there is no positivity in their lives. Even out of some negatives, something positive can happen and be beneficial but maybe people don't talk about or remember the positive.
 
Old 08-02-2009, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
878 posts, read 2,490,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
Right.

Rap Music is just one genre, but seems to be over-run with negative, violent and disrespectful tones and lyrics. For the most part, it seems to glorify all the wrong things, and some of the artists hide behind lofty-sounding things such as "artistic integrity" and "freedom of speech" to spew out filthy garbage.

The fact that something rhymes doesn't mean it's poetry. And the presence of a beat doesn't automatically make something music or art.
There is some positive rap music out there as well as some fun ones that are reminiscent of old school rap. I think that what you are referring to is gansta rap which is a specific style of rap. I do agree that a lot of what is out there is not what I would listen to or want anyone in my life influenced by.

I do have to admit that I do like some of the stuff L'il Kim put out, especially "How Many Licks".
 
Old 08-02-2009, 03:33 PM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,087,903 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drkman View Post
I hear what you're saying. In my work life, I have encountered numerous people of varying races that have personal issues, as you have described above but I never make a connection that they are representative of their race. They are just representative of themselves. The sad thing is that for some people, a negative personal issue with a Black person reinforces their stereotype of Blacks in general, which is wrong.

Out of all the things that the poster that I quoted stated, there was not one positive thing that was listed about these people and I do not believe that there is no positivity in their lives. Even out of some negatives, something positive can happen and be beneficial but maybe people don't talk about or remember the positive.

dont mean to piggy back too much here but I was thinking the exact same thing...

further I find it hard to believe that he would expect much more than what he has encountered, considering the people he is surrounded by. Most rappers I have heard speak go to great lengths to ensure that everyone they encounter knows how 'hood' and 'ghetto' and 'gangsta' they are...

It would almost be like a person of color walking into a trailor park, making note of all of the meth heads, neo nazi, and skin head spinoff groups, and then using them to represent the assortment problems within the "white" community in general.

Why would anyone choose that particular demographic as the sample group for the rest of the white population? Unless one does only want to reaffirm their preconceptions of that race.

I have trouble comprehending how he honestly accepts that those encounters with his colleagues are more representative of blacks in the aggregate than any pleasant experience he may have with a black gentleman or a kind black lady in a supermarket.
 
Old 08-02-2009, 04:22 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,457,074 times
Reputation: 3868
Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
Right on all points there... except for the last part..dont you think thats kind of subjective?...I mean originally no one considered rock and roll 'music' either

But I will attempt to amend one of your points though....mainstream/popular rap music is overrun with negative, violent and disrespectful lyrics...there is a vast quantity of even rap music that doesnt contain much if any of those types of lyrics...(*granted its not the majority of it*)

however, like the film industry, sex violence and drugs sell..especially within the context of storytelling...in this society, people actually gravitate towards those elements of entertainment...its one of the reasons rock n roll eventually became trendy. ('sex, drugs, rock n roll')
Well yeah, of course it's subjective. That's the thing - especially about art. You and I could be standing beside each other looking at a sculpture. I may think it sucks, but it really speaks to you. Which of us is wrong?

Personally, I think Rap sucks. Period. Even so, I really don't care if somebody else likes it. That's not my business or my problem.

But music moves us. And it worries me when so many people are listening to so much crap - rap and other genres - that glorify and encourage violence and other negative things.
 
Old 08-02-2009, 04:24 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
16,469 posts, read 33,418,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
True, I agree with that...a large part of being able to mask ones issues is directly related to income. But then too the same could be said of the experiences of the rappers that the earlier poster recounted. Most rappers do so because they have very little to offer in the way of a truly marketable skill. And they generally come from impoverished backgrounds with a need to earn money, quickly.

That said, the blacks described as rappers by the previous poster, are not among the higher echelon of the black race either..

yet within this thread their experiences have been upheld as being representative of a pervasive problem among blacks in general.
The reason that the rapper lifestyle is so appealing to the poor black youth is that it requires no marketable skills. And in order to have marketable skills, they would have to apply themselves at a college or trade school. Rapping is seen as being an easy way to become rich and famous.

Now as to what percentage of the black community is poor and impoverished compared to those blacks that are educated and having a successful career, that I haven't hunted for the numbers yet. But I think that we all agree that there are a significant percentage of blacks in the black community that are living in poverty.
 
Old 08-02-2009, 04:26 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,457,074 times
Reputation: 3868
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkman View Post
There is some positive rap music out there as well as some fun ones that are reminiscent of old school rap. I think that what you are referring to is gansta rap which is a specific style of rap. I do agree that a lot of what is out there is not what I would listen to or want anyone in my life influenced by.

I do have to admit that I do like some of the stuff L'il Kim put out, especially "How Many Licks".
Right.

Like I said, Rap just isn't my thing. In fact, it really grates my hide. But I'll fully admit that lots of people love it - and there is some of it that's fun and positive. It's just not my thang.
 
Old 08-02-2009, 04:37 PM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,087,903 times
Reputation: 1814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
Well yeah, of course it's subjective. That's the thing - especially about art. You and I could be standing beside each other looking at a sculpture. I may think it sucks, but it really speaks to you. Which of us is wrong?

Personally, I think Rap sucks. Period. Even so, I really don't care if somebody else likes it. That's not my business or my problem.

But music moves us. And it worries me when so many people are listening to so much crap - rap and other genres - that glorify and encourage violence and other negative things.

I respect that...I have pretty much moved away from rap music altogether myself..I also think much (read: most) of it sucks...

I think it was more a part of the maturing process for myself.
 
Old 08-02-2009, 04:48 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,457,074 times
Reputation: 3868
Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
I respect that...I have pretty much moved away from rap music altogether myself..I also think much (read: most) of it sucks...

I think it was more a part of the maturing process for myself.
That could be.

Both my sons are professional musicians. Their tastes in music are very different than those of my wife & me. I suppose part of that is because, when they were growing up, we intentionally exposed them to every manner of music available - from Andreas Vollenwieder to Radiohead to Weezer. My father-in-law was a music professor, so it's always been important to us for our kids to grow up with a broad range of musical influence.

I'm not sure why, but neither of our sons (or our daughter for that matter) had any time for, or interest in, rap music.
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