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Old 08-02-2009, 04:52 PM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,087,903 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
The reason that the rapper lifestyle is so appealing to the poor black youth is that it requires no marketable skills. And in order to have marketable skills, they would have to apply themselves at a college or trade school. Rapping is seen as being an easy way to become rich and famous.

Now as to what percentage of the black community is poor and impoverished compared to those blacks that are educated and having a successful career, that I haven't hunted for the numbers yet. But I think that we all agree that there are a significant percentage of blacks in the black community that are living in poverty.
True true...I make no pretension that rapping or any form of lyricism (including poetry, and other popular forms music) require a marketable skill AT ALL...but it has produced measurable results for those who have chosen to capitalize on its popularity. Rap music was initially considered an ignorant, hedonistic, uncivilized, urban form of music with absolutely no intrinsic value nor economic interest to America.

However, as with rock and roll, more and more youth adopted and related to the music. And as more suburban youth (those with the purchasing power to consume the music) began embracing the music and emulating the culture it promoted, businessmen then began to, for whatever reason, see that perhaps the melodic rhapsodies actually DID have some value from which benefits could be reaped. Although rap music requires no real skill, I think has become quite clear that successful entrepreneurship itself doesnt require any marketable skill in this country; as long as one can effectively market the product.

Today rap music is one of the most lucrative industries in the world. Go figure.

 
Old 08-02-2009, 05:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
That could be.

Both my sons are professional musicians. Their tastes in music are very different than those of my wife & me. I suppose part of that is because, when they were growing up, we intentionally exposed them to every manner of music available - from Andreas Vollenwieder to Radiohead to Weezer. My father-in-law was a music professor, so it's always been important to us for our kids to grow up with a broad range of musical influence.

I'm not sure why, but neither of our sons (or our daughter for that matter) had any time for, or interest in, rap music.
Well I can honestly say that unless one is actually working within the rap industry, for youth who are not actually from the environment that influences so much of rap music, the negative aspects of listening to mainstream rap music far outweigh the positive aspects of listening to it.

People generally learn most effectively through repetition. And the repeated ingestion of negativity, insensitivity, violence and hypersexuality through storytelling, can result in a very skewed outlook on life.

(Im not taking into account the 2 positive songs out of 17 on a mainstream/popular rap cd that might be semi-positive.)

For most suburban youth, listening to mainstream rap music is more intertwined with a culture of rebellion against authority than it ever is with any genuine interest in the music itself.

However many inner city youth actually have lived and some continue to live the life that many popular rappers vocalize.

But, different strokes for different folks..

dont know too many folks who dont like to hear some Weezer though.
 
Old 08-02-2009, 11:29 PM
 
261 posts, read 584,407 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milwaukee City View Post
My question is in every city in America the worst area and most poor area is Black and the second most poor or dangerous is Hispanic but how and why have Asians bucked this minority trend? Go to the casino in Milwaukee and the high roller tables and rooms are all full of Asians and all engineering/math classes in college are either Indian or Asian. I suppose things are different in LA and SF but in Milwaukee we have a low Asian population but a high black and Hispanic population we have around 50-60,000 Asians. All our Asians for the most part are well educated well mannered and clean orderly people. Even the blue collar Asians have very nice homes and nice yards and you never see a Asian homeless guy in Milwaukee or anywhere else that I have seen. Milwaukee averages around 115-130 homicides even though last year we only had 70, not one Asian was killed or arrested for a homicide.

So if Asians were brought here by the white man to build the railroads and Hispanics immigrated here and blacks were brought here by slavery and all three ethnicity's started from the bottom why haven't Asians fallen into the "trap" that some claim that the man is holding them back and it's a white man's world...well the Asians have progressed and other ethnic backgrounds haven't why? I have seen many poor Asians that take such good care of there house and cars even thought they only make very little money and they are very polite people.

Another thing, I have talked to many immigrant Africans who don't like American black people b/c of the way they act and conduct themselves and I have been asked by people from Africa why are American blacks so violent in America? I have been told by many immigrants from Africa that say "they should be so happy just to be in America they have no reason to be mad and depressed"

So how have Asians Americans advanced and progressed and blacks and Hispanics not ? I'm talking as a whole society. You don't see Asian hoods in every city or Indian thugs on every corner in the hood.
This post stinks of racism but its asked as a seemingly honest manner so I'll pretend it is an honest question. I'm not latino but I can speak for the african american view even though I'm african.
1)All americans are generally lazy, its not a white or black phenonmon but all americans are generally lazy. I'm in a ivy league business program and I am only one of 8 in a year of 400 people actually born in this country. Which tells you how lazy our own people are.
2) If you come from poverty /poor countries you will work harder than someone who was born in a middle class wealthy country. Poor people from mexico will work for $5 an hour where as middle class americans won't work for less than 25 an hour. Why because to a poor mexican who drinks water from a ditch or a poor chinese who drinks water that is brown, it is a steal.
3) The Chinese/indians who are coming to America are the best of the best. Right now the government is only letting in Chinese with degrees who won't commit crimes, once america follows canada and starts to let in chinese from the middle and lower class you will see chinese ghettos and america will stop taking chinese immigrants.
4)Indian ghettos exist ion toronto=bramptom and so do chinese ghettos=scarborough. I know because I live ther eon and off.
5)Immigrants have big incentives not to commit crimes. Me and all my friends, whites and black, regularly drink and drive, our immigrant friends refuse to do it because if they get caught they get deported. If we get caught we only los eour license. we won't get kicked out of school and sent to a russian gulag.
6)Indian thugs do exist the majority of crimes committed in vancouver is by chinese and vietnemese gangs and toronto is dominated by "young tamil men" who do senseless shootings.
 
Old 08-03-2009, 02:46 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,884 posts, read 5,038,465 times
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Very interesting thread.

Blacks have made tremendous strides....whether obama, 50 cent, Oprah.

But I think *the* model to emulate or look at are jews. From wikipedia, there are 13.2 million worldwide. That's 2/10th of 1% (.0022) of the worldwide population.

The US population is 5.3 million. Out of 300 million people, thats about 1.7%.

Yet they're incredibly over represented either in hollywood, wall street, banking, forbes 400, nobel prize winners, top lawyers, professors, sports team owners, etc.

In my own experiences...

A DVD set I bought the other day, the 3 stooges (looking forward to it!), three jews that dominated comedy for decades. I think jewish success is different than asian or black success. Its more dominate, and play to win.

A marketing author/guru I like is Jay Abraham. He's basically in his own league vs other authors or speakers in his category. If you go to any marketing or internet marketing forum, his name always comes up towards the top of the list.

The new movie out, Funny People. Apatow, Rogen, Sandler. Jonah Hill.

Lots of examples, but I dont think many people really understand jewish success, or where it comes from. People know that asians value education. Or asians own businesses. But how do jews dominate? Thats the model to emulate.
 
Old 08-03-2009, 06:33 AM
 
812 posts, read 2,079,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jungeon View Post
This post stinks of racism but its asked as a seemingly honest manner so I'll pretend it is an honest question. I'm not latino but I can speak for the african american view even though I'm african.
1)All americans are generally lazy, its not a white or black phenonmon but all americans are generally lazy. I'm in a ivy league business program and I am only one of 8 in a year of 400 people actually born in this country. Which tells you how lazy our own people are.
2) If you come from poverty /poor countries you will work harder than someone who was born in a middle class wealthy country. Poor people from mexico will work for $5 an hour where as middle class americans won't work for less than 25 an hour. Why because to a poor mexican who drinks water from a ditch or a poor chinese who drinks water that is brown, it is a steal.
3) The Chinese/indians who are coming to America are the best of the best. Right now the government is only letting in Chinese with degrees who won't commit crimes, once america follows canada and starts to let in chinese from the middle and lower class you will see chinese ghettos and america will stop taking chinese immigrants.
4)Indian ghettos exist ion toronto=bramptom and so do chinese ghettos=scarborough. I know because I live ther eon and off.
5)Immigrants have big incentives not to commit crimes. Me and all my friends, whites and black, regularly drink and drive, our immigrant friends refuse to do it because if they get caught they get deported. If we get caught we only los eour license. we won't get kicked out of school and sent to a russian gulag.
6)Indian thugs do exist the majority of crimes committed in vancouver is by chinese and vietnemese gangs and toronto is dominated by "young tamil men" who do senseless shootings.
your post is partly true and partly not true. it's true that those who made the effort to immigrate would work hard and keep their nose to the grindstone but it's not true that it's only the 'best of the best' that immigrate. never was and never has been the case. i still am baffled why people believe this. most immigrants are not doing so well or are lower to middle class looking for opportunities whether they be chinese or indian. NOW there are more upper middle class to yuppies who can easily travel to other countries but still the running theme of immigration is pretty consistent generationally and across all cultures whether it is to leave oppression, poverty or look for opportunity to better thier lives.
 
Old 08-03-2009, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Sandpoint, Idaho
2,880 posts, read 5,071,331 times
Reputation: 3020
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungeon View Post
This post stinks of racism but its asked as a seemingly honest manner so I'll pretend it is an honest question. I'm not latino but I can speak for the african american view even though I'm african.
1)All americans are generally lazy, its not a white or black phenonmon but all americans are generally lazy. I'm in a ivy league business program and I am only one of 8 in a year of 400 people actually born in this country. Which tells you how lazy our own people are.
2) If you come from poverty /poor countries you will work harder than someone who was born in a middle class wealthy country. Poor people from mexico will work for $5 an hour where as middle class americans won't work for less than 25 an hour. Why because to a poor mexican who drinks water from a ditch or a poor chinese who drinks water that is brown, it is a steal.

3) The Chinese/indians who are coming to America are the best of the best. Right now the government is only letting in Chinese with degrees who won't commit crimes, once america follows canada and starts to let in chinese from the middle and lower class you will see chinese ghettos and america will stop taking chinese immigrants.
4)Indian ghettos exist ion toronto=bramptom and so do chinese ghettos=scarborough. I know because I live ther eon and off.
5)Immigrants have big incentives not to commit crimes. Me and all my friends, whites and black, regularly drink and drive, our immigrant friends refuse to do it because if they get caught they get deported. If we get caught we only los eour license. we won't get kicked out of school and sent to a russian gulag.
6)Indian thugs do exist the majority of crimes committed in vancouver is by chinese and vietnemese gangs and toronto is dominated by "young tamil men" who do senseless shootings.
1) All lazy? I think you are perhaps overstating things, no? Having lived and worked abroad in six countries and having had assignments in another four or so, I can assure you that Americans are easily among the hardest and most productive workers in the world. Not even a question.

2) The poor have no choice but to work hard to escape their condition and the temptation of welfare. Upper middle class Americans would be foolish to squander their privilege, education, and network to take a job for $5 an hour.
3) America has no such immigration plan. We do have a H1B visa. I would not say these are the creme de la creme. However, they are good enough to get into schools, get job offers, and/or have enough money and most certainly they are collectively in the upper quarter of their populations. As for Crime? These communities are not immune. The past two years has seen honour killings, office killings, and massacres of their own families. Aside from these killings, these communities are much like well-educated American communities: virtually crime-free & "boringly" normal. BTW: America has always taken in immigrants from a wide range of income classes.

4-6) Ghettos & Crime , whatever the race, are created by a lack of access, opportunity and hope.

other than class, there is the challenge of cultural integration. IT is very difficult for people of different cultures and income classes to mix comfortably.

The purely racial dimension is less than one might think...even if the reasons for class and culture to be so important were in the past often a function of race and racial discrimination.

Today, race, strictly speaking, is far less important.

S.
 
Old 08-03-2009, 01:11 PM
 
812 posts, read 2,079,022 times
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Quote:
most certainly they are collectively in the upper quarter of their populations
um, this is not even true either. this is actually very far from the real truth. i've known plenty of people that were homeless, near homeless or came from extremely tough circumstances in their native countries that have flourished in america or at least made a decent life or are still just scraping by. this is not because of their socioeconomic status before but because there were opportunities to help themselves up either through loans, jobs or education. that's all it takes sometimes.

as an example, many wives of military are considered the lowest of the low in their native countries or are from very shady backgrounds but their children often have a completely different life in america due to the different circumstances and opportunity. what's even more ironic is sometimes those offspring are considered more acceptable or america because they are mixed and blend in well than your usual fobish immigrants who may have more education or better families. these examples can go on endless. i know of a ***** who married a GI who was basically a redneck, became a christian and their asian/white children think they are better than regular asian immigrants because they are christian, act white, look white etc. their associates and friends are middle to upper-middle class whites. life and society is not what it appears to be on the surface oftentimes when you start unraveling the hidden history. i would say scenarios like this are much more common for immigrants than those who are well off. it is changing more recently because of the wealth of other countries but they certainly don't represent the cream of the crop in all ways either. i know asians who were born with a silver spoon in their mouth but that doesn't mean they are smarter, talented or better people than those who aren't, it's just circumstantial for the most part, though they may be good people themselves. maybe their parents can send them to harvard or yale etc and sure there are a lot of international exchange students but this is just one aspect of the immigration picture as well.

um, those people who work in chinese restaurants or work at laundromats etc are not in the upper quarter of thier population. this does not mean they are stupid or bad people. sometimes it's just circumstances. some did not get a chance at higher education, maybe thier cirumstances forced them to give up schooling and work for themselves or family etc and give up on other aspirations.

i mean, how can someone delude themselves into believing that countries like china, japan or south korea or even india could succeed in any fashion if there were not a lot of successful and intelligent people in those countries. LOL

Last edited by leaana; 08-03-2009 at 01:29 PM..
 
Old 08-04-2009, 06:59 AM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
16,469 posts, read 33,418,786 times
Reputation: 15198
I came across this story about a Korean family in today's Boston Globe. Two of their sons now hold high positions in Obama's administration. One is a lawyer and the other a medical doctor. The one that is a lawyer passed the bar exam in three states. The doctor brother is certified in four fields.
Washington’s power brothers - The Boston Globe

I was very very shocked to read this:
Quote:
When they moved to Cambridge in 1951, the newlyweds had trouble finding a landlord who would rent to them. “They said no dogs or Asians were allowed in the apartment,’’ recalled Hesung Chun Koh, Harold and Howard’s mother.
Otherwise their parents were academics that came to the US for graduate studies. Their father was one of the first Koreans to study law at Harvard. The mother was an anthropology major. And they wanted their kids to also excel in academics. Pretty intense child raising methods!
Quote:
Once they turned 5, the Kohs’ six children were expected to keep diaries so their father could coach them on essay-writing techniques.

At breakfast, they took daily turns delivering prayers and reading letters from relatives in Korea. Breakfast meetings became an inviolate part of the family schedule: When their father began commuting on a 3:58 a.m. train, the children were expected at the table by 3 a.m.

On Saturdays, they gathered for family-council meetings, the chairmanship rotating among the children.
 
Old 08-04-2009, 07:17 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,457,074 times
Reputation: 3868
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
I came across this story about a Korean family in today's Boston Globe. Two of their sons now hold high positions in Obama's administration. One is a lawyer and the other a medical doctor. The one that is a lawyer passed the bar exam in three states. The doctor brother is certified in four fields.
Washington’s power brothers - The Boston Globe

I was very very shocked to read this:
Otherwise their parents were academics that came to the US for graduate studies. Their father was one of the first Koreans to study law at Harvard. The mother was an anthropology major. And they wanted their kids to also excel in academics. Pretty intense child raising methods!
For as wrong as that obviously was, we need to view it in its historic context.

Less than 5 years after the close of WW2, anti-Japanese sentiments were understandably high in the United States. And frankly, few people could distinguish between Japanese and other Asian peoples. Black hair & hooded eyes made people think Japanese. And it didn't help that we were on the verge of the Korean War.
 
Old 08-04-2009, 02:11 PM
 
31 posts, read 31,790 times
Reputation: 19
i think in milwaukee it would help reduce crime/murder if there were more jobs available in black neighborhoods. white people arent going to open businesses there because it would be horribly stupid and you would get robbed and possibly killed within a year or 2. restaurants wont open in certain minority neighborhoods because they dont tip well and no one will work for them (THAT IS A NATIONWIDE FACT NOT RACISM!!!!!!!LOOK IT UP, THEIR ARE STUDIES AND REPORTS AND THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF RESTAURANTS WONT TOUCH THE SUBJECT!!!!!)

so black people need to pass on the 22 inch rims and get your friends together and open a small business......maybe selling rims! and employ black people in your neighborhood. in milwaukee no race other than blacks is gonna risk opening a business on the north side (and blacks might not be too keen on it either) but its up to you to do it! actually now that i think of it i couldnt open a business in a neighborhood with a bunch of loose cannon white people around. actually i think i could because im cool and people dont mess with me and that involves gaining respect or fear from one of the smarter/leaders of the bad apples to spread their respect for your business to the others whether spoken or unspoken. but then you have also put your fist in the lions mouth and they know you close at 9pm and that your weakness is bullets.

do a 9-5 thing with the business you start. less robberies and murders in the daylight.
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