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Old 08-04-2009, 02:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandpointian View Post
1) All lazy? I think you are perhaps overstating things, no? Having lived and worked abroad in six countries and having had assignments in another four or so, I can assure you that Americans are easily among the hardest and most productive workers in the world. Not even a question.

2) The poor have no choice but to work hard to escape their condition and the temptation of welfare. Upper middle class Americans would be foolish to squander their privilege, education, and network to take a job for $5 an hour.
3) America has no such immigration plan. We do have a H1B visa. I would not say these are the creme de la creme. However, they are good enough to get into schools, get job offers, and/or have enough money and most certainly they are collectively in the upper quarter of their populations. As for Crime? These communities are not immune. The past two years has seen honour killings, office killings, and massacres of their own families. Aside from these killings, these communities are much like well-educated American communities: virtually crime-free & "boringly" normal. BTW: America has always taken in immigrants from a wide range of income classes.

4-6) Ghettos & Crime , whatever the race, are created by a lack of access, opportunity and hope.

other than class, there is the challenge of cultural integration. IT is very difficult for people of different cultures and income classes to mix comfortably.

The purely racial dimension is less than one might think...even if the reasons for class and culture to be so important were in the past often a function of race and racial discrimination.

Today, race, strictly speaking, is far less important.

S.
That is why I say opportunities should be made more available to everyone. I do agree that it starts at home. With that said, it also starts at the schools too. Making those opportunities more available to everyone means raising the standards for being a teacher and making more incentives for teaching in areas that are the most disadvantaged.

 
Old 08-05-2009, 10:13 AM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
16,469 posts, read 33,431,905 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
That is why I say opportunities should be made more available to everyone. I do agree that it starts at home. With that said, it also starts at the schools too. Making those opportunities more available to everyone means raising the standards for being a teacher and making more incentives for teaching in areas that are the most disadvantaged.
At the same time, the parents of these children going to these schools have to instill in their children a desire to learn and to make sure that they respect their teachers. The best teachers in the world can't teach the unwilling. And the school day isn't that long. Schools aren't meant to do all the child raising.
 
Old 08-05-2009, 10:21 AM
 
44,592 posts, read 43,126,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
At the same time, the parents of these children going to these schools have to instill in their children a desire to learn and to make sure that they respect their teachers. The best teachers in the world can't teach the unwilling. And the school day isn't that long. Schools aren't meant to do all the child raising.
I mentioned that in another post on another forum:http://www.city-data.com/forum/milwa...l#post10106075
 
Old 08-05-2009, 01:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
At the same time, the parents of these children going to these schools have to instill in their children a desire to learn and to make sure that they respect their teachers. The best teachers in the world can't teach the unwilling. And the school day isn't that long. Schools aren't meant to do all the child raising.

BABY DADDY'S NEED TO BE AROUND!!!!!!!! having your kids sit down with you at supper has shown to be very positive. they have to own up to what they are up to during discussion. i was raised by a single mother (parents got divorced) and their were many many things that my mom was unable to teach me and she spent all her time at work. i was able to waffle out of sports and in and out of interests with no one making me stick anything out. i had no understanding of how the world worked (raised catholic/blind), no one to answer my questions and guide me.

men/humans have a beast inside them (and a 'reptilian brain' under their regular brain, we are animals, deal with it!) and unless you harness that aggression and use it to be inventive or creative or in shape (or kill it off like the sheep working jobs they hate) you will end up a some sort of broken crackhead in and out of jail or something. i just woke up

a vision of the world-humans created all that we see and hear. even the bible. religion makes people aim at being more than the animals but is full of imaginary stories and evil doings even by god (numbers 15;32-36). society uses people like batteries (the matrix) and government exists off our tax dollars. we are raised in america to be consumer whores and everything you see on tv and are being sold is someones attempt to swindle you out of your hard earned money. you can be almost anything you want to be but you need to go to college. you can be self taught but you really need to know what you are doing and succeeding even for college graduates in this day and age requires a move to a city that is paying and needs you service. so for the self taught people you still need to get to a city that will work for you. i do music and milwaukee is one of the last places on earth i should be. all my friends that didnt go to college work half ass jobs and or are drug dealers on the run or are dead. a couple started their own businesses. i started hanging out with my college friends again and now im surrounded by lawyers, video game developers (making famous games), sports trainers, biology teachers, film makers, music studio techs and more.

seriously GO TO SCHOOL. all that time you waste playing video games and watching family guy you could have learned a skill and be getting paid $50,000+ per year to do it and be able to hang in the company of other college grads.
 
Old 08-05-2009, 01:43 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
16,469 posts, read 33,431,905 times
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Well Sotomeyer did just fine being raised only by her mother, however she also witnessed her mother studying for nursing school. And her mother kept telling her the importance of getting a good education.

But a two parent household is ideal. And maybe if there were more fathers around to help raise their kids, there wouldn't be this imbalance or more black women with college degrees than black men with them.
 
Old 08-05-2009, 01:49 PM
 
44,592 posts, read 43,126,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
Well Sotomeyer did just fine being raised only by her mother, however she also witnessed her mother studying for nursing school. And her mother kept telling her the importance of getting a good education.

But a two parent household is ideal. And maybe if there were more fathers around to help raise their kids, there wouldn't be this imbalance or more black women with college degrees than black men with them.
The father does need to be there for the child, as well as the mother. That is how it worked for my father. He was raised in a working-class neighborhood in Milwaukee that was kind of rough. His father(may he rest in peace) would tell him to get his education so he could get something better out of life. My grandfather worked to provide for his family(and died in a factory) as well as my grandmother. They were both there.They made sure their children did their homework and behaved and that is part of the reason my father beat the odds and has a college degree. A black man from a rather rough neighborhood in the inner city(and he grew up in the late 1960s-early 1970s). Everyone would say he couldn't make it. He beat those odds. Now I am in college working on my degree. You make a good point about the father being there for his family. More fathers need to do that.
 
Old 08-05-2009, 02:05 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
16,469 posts, read 33,431,905 times
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Maybe Obama could also make a plea for more black men to mentor those black kids without a father figure in their lives.

But one of my high school classmates is a single white woman of Italian descent that took a young neighborhood black boy with an absentee father into her home, gave him structure (which he asked for), helped him with his studies (he told her that he'd like to go onto college) and attended all his track events. A few year back, I took the two of them by car to Philadelphia, Pittsburgh and Amherst to look around some college campuses to help inspire him. He ended up with a full scholarship to the University of Maine. She did this all on her own and without any compensation from the state or his mother.

So actually, it's possible for an adult to mentor a young person successfully without being the same race or sex as the child. I think what's key is having very open lines of communication both ways.
 
Old 08-05-2009, 02:07 PM
 
44,592 posts, read 43,126,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
Maybe Obama could also make a plea for more black men to mentor those black kids without a father figure in their lives.

But one of my high school classmates is a single white woman of Italian descent that took a young neighborhood black boy with an absentee father into her home, gave him structure (which he asked for), helped him with his studies (he told her that he'd like to go onto college) and attended all his track events. A few year back, I took the two of them by car to Philadelphia, Pittsburgh and Amherst to look around some college campuses to help inspire him. He ended up with a full scholarship to the University of Maine. She did this all on her own and without any compensation from the state or his mother.

So actually, it's possible for an adult to mentor a young person successfully without being the same race or sex as the child. I think what's key is having very open lines of communication both ways.
That is true. She did a very good thing. What it takes is compassion and care. That is one thing that is needed today.
 
Old 08-05-2009, 07:07 PM
 
Location: California
62 posts, read 66,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milwaukee City
My question is in every city in America the worst area and most poor area is Black and the second most poor or dangerous is Hispanic but how and why have Asians bucked this minority trend? Go to the casino in Milwaukee and the high roller tables and rooms are all full of Asians and all engineering/math classes in college are either Indian or Asian. I suppose things are different in LA and SF but in Milwaukee we have a low Asian population but a high black and Hispanic population we have around 50-60,000 Asians. All our Asians for the most part are well educated well mannered and clean orderly people. Even the blue collar Asians have very nice homes and nice yards and you never see a Asian homeless guy in Milwaukee or anywhere else that I have seen. Milwaukee averages around 115-130 homicides even though last year we only had 70, not one Asian was killed or arrested for a homicide.

So if Asians were brought here by the white man to build the railroads and Hispanics immigrated here and blacks were brought here by slavery and all three ethnicity's started from the bottom why haven't Asians fallen into the "trap" that some claim that the man is holding them back and it's a white man's world...well the Asians have progressed and other ethnic backgrounds haven't why? I have seen many poor Asians that take such good care of there house and cars even thought they only make very little money and they are very polite people.

Another thing, I have talked to many immigrant Africans who don't like American black people b/c of the way they act and conduct themselves and I have been asked by people from Africa why are American blacks so violent in America? I have been told by many immigrants from Africa that say "they should be so happy just to be in America they have no reason to be mad and depressed"

So how have Asians Americans advanced and progressed and blacks and Hispanics not ? I'm talking as a whole society. You don't see Asian hoods in every city or Indian thugs on every corner in the hood.
I don't think it's fair to accuse you of having racist sympathies, as some have done in this thread, because I do not believe the term racist should be nonchalantly hurled against anyone. Furthermore, similar questions have been posed by those who study socioeconomic trends in this country. Americans love talking about race, in that everyone seems to have opinions on issues of race and race relations. Class or socioeconomic status on the other hand, is a topic which do not engender as much passion and controversy. When one marries race with class, it pretty much guarantees controversy, with subsequent impassioned arguments on all sides. I'll attempt to answer only parts of this question, and only those parts to which I can supply informed answers and opinions.

First of all I'm Asian-American, as much as I hate to define myself by ethnicity alone, for the purpose of supporting my opinions and experiences I would like to make this fact known. There is truth to the model minority myth, according to the U.S. Census, Asian households had the highest median income at $64,200, followed by non-Hispanic white ($52,400), Hispanic ($37,800) and black ($32,000) households. Also in the same report, Asians had the highest proportion with a bachelor’s degree or higher (49.4 percent), followed by Non-Hispanic whites (30.6 percent), African-Americans (17.6 percent) and Hispanics (12.1 percent). Similarly, the homeless and prison populations merely reflect the correlation between socioeconomic status and education.

But facts are often generalizations, and the generalization that ALL Asian-Americans are model citizens, is a false one. In the U.S. there is much disparity between incomes and education levels of southeast Asians such as the Hmong or Vietnamese, and other Asian groups like Japanese, Taiwanese or Indian. The latter group attain better standards of living due to higher education levels, and as immigrants they are far more likely to have employable skills and financial resources than Southeast Asians.

As someone of Japanese and Taiwanese descent, I can only say that education is very important in these two cultures. I immigrated here with my family when I was in third grade, education is stressed both in family life and within public realms. In Japan or Taiwan, smart students are admired, whereas here they are labeled as nerds. When I started third grade here, I was surprised at the lack of academic rigor and personal discipline. I remember looking around at my classmates and thinking Wow, they're still learning addition and subtraction, and reading books with mostly pictures in them. In my family, in accordance to our backgrounds, we were not only encouraged but expected to earn good grades. Believe me, a B is nothing to be proud of, it's almost enough to hang one's head in shame. Yes, bringing honor to yourself and your family, or at the minimum not shaming your family, still looms large in the Asian mindset. Put it this way, the only mitigation for a B student is if he/ she excels at something that's culturally appreciated, like playing the piano for instance. If you're Asian and you're reading this, you know what I'm talking about.

So that's basically the gist of my view on the model minority myth. A lot of the "myth" is actually true, and they are attributable to cultural attitudes regarding education and achievement. Education being correlative to income, it comes as no surprise that we don't see a lot of Asian homeless people or Asian criminals. On an related note, I had an Asian-American friend who, as part of a sociology experiment, posed for a day as a homeless panhandler. At the end of the day, it turned out that he got the most $$$ out of everyone in his project group. With all the variables accounted for, they finally concluded that being Asian helped my friend collect more money. People probably concluded that for an Asian man to be out on the street begging for change, he must have been in some dire, dire straits.
 
Old 08-06-2009, 11:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leaana View Post
your post is partly true and partly not true. it's true that those who made the effort to immigrate would work hard and keep their nose to the grindstone but it's not true that it's only the 'best of the best' that immigrate. never was and never has been the case. i still am baffled why people believe this. most immigrants are not doing so well or are lower to middle class looking for opportunities whether they be chinese or indian. NOW there are more upper middle class to yuppies who can easily travel to other countries but still the running theme of immigration is pretty consistent generationally and across all cultures whether it is to leave oppression, poverty or look for opportunity to better thier lives.
O come on now, if America turned intoa 3rd world country tomorrow, who would leave the country first, Donald Trump or Oscar the grouch. Who has money to leave America and pay for immigration lawyers, middle class and upper class america or poor rural and inner city america? I can tell you that people who got Ds and Fs in school would have alot of trouble immigrating from America if it were a 3rd world country. D and F students grow up to be the people you see on Judge Joe Brown or Judge Judy with a bunch of kids, act lazy, and no education. No country would take these people in.
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