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Old 08-07-2009, 12:06 AM
 
261 posts, read 584,636 times
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Cherry Sakura, you are wrong Africans hold the highest rate of bachelors education in America. That report you read you must have either read it wrong-due to the slantage of your eyes.

Your also wrong on the prison stats because a black is 5 times more likely to be convicted of the exact same crime as accused as a white under the same circumstances and a Hispanic 3.5 times more likely. You also neglect to mention the reverse effect of racial profiling. Blacks andhispanics get stopped 10 times more per capita by police hence it is more likely a black criminal will be caught than a white criminal. You also neglect to mention that in rural areas there are only 5 cops to patrol a whole town so white people get away with dealing drugs unless they blow up their house with oxycotin labs or show up at the hospital from overdosing. There are no undercover cops in scranton.

Just admit it, asian people are the most greedy, asian american people don't go into any field that doesn't include science or a high pay. If a chinese doesn't get into a ivey league school he gets a belt on his azz. I'd rather be poor and happy n live a religious life, which I am none of to be honest than to be a rich asian who doesn't believe in Gd.

 
Old 08-07-2009, 06:36 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,466,140 times
Reputation: 3869
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungeon View Post
Cherry Sakura, you are wrong Africans hold the highest rate of bachelors education in America. That report you read you must have either read it wrong-due to the slantage of your eyes.

Your also wrong on the prison stats because a black is 5 times more likely to be convicted of the exact same crime as accused as a white under the same circumstances and a Hispanic 3.5 times more likely. You also neglect to mention the reverse effect of racial profiling. Blacks andhispanics get stopped 10 times more per capita by police hence it is more likely a black criminal will be caught than a white criminal. You also neglect to mention that in rural areas there are only 5 cops to patrol a whole town so white people get away with dealing drugs unless they blow up their house with oxycotin labs or show up at the hospital from overdosing. There are no undercover cops in scranton.

Just admit it, asian people are the most greedy, asian american people don't go into any field that doesn't include science or a high pay. If a chinese doesn't get into a ivey league school he gets a belt on his azz. I'd rather be poor and happy n live a religious life, which I am none of to be honest than to be a rich asian who doesn't believe in Gd.
Ummmm... Excuse me?
 
Old 08-07-2009, 06:36 AM
 
252 posts, read 580,936 times
Reputation: 355
jungeon is an obvious troll.

I've wondered the same. Mexicans weren't kidnapped from mexico and forced into slavery, but they carry the a similar stigma as african-americans. However, alongside the asians that immigrated over, italians and the irish also had really ugly beginnings in america and neither is considered an issue today (the irish weren't known for crime. the irish were known for being poor, unskilled and uneducated). Speaking of England, why don't they have a bunch of irish people selling drugs and shooting at each other and having a general hatred for the english man that's "holding them down?" England's past treatment of the irish made american slave owners look like saints.

I'm not going to compare recently-immigrated (in the past 40 years) people to those who's ancestors came 200 years ago. They came from entirely different politics. Of course they're not going to act the same just because their skin color is similar. I'm comparing all groups of immigrants that had it tough 75-300 (pre-civil rights) years ago going down very different paths. Even the dreaded mafia of the 30's mostly dissipated and italian-americans are just "another american" now days. Even if most of the mexicans and african-americans I meet are decent people, why does such a large percentage of those groups think that a life of blatant disrespect and crime is acceptable?
 
Old 08-07-2009, 08:29 AM
 
812 posts, read 2,079,494 times
Reputation: 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungeon View Post
O come on now, if America turned intoa 3rd world country tomorrow, who would leave the country first, Donald Trump or Oscar the grouch. Who has money to leave America and pay for immigration lawyers, middle class and upper class america or poor rural and inner city america? I can tell you that people who got Ds and Fs in school would have alot of trouble immigrating from America if it were a 3rd world country. D and F students grow up to be the people you see on Judge Joe Brown or Judge Judy with a bunch of kids, act lazy, and no education. No country would take these people in.
um, you don't know what you are talking about. just because someone was poor in another country does not mean they all have a bad character or are not hard-working. it's obvious you fail to see the reality that many immigrants are from very unfortunate backgrounds who worked very hard to overcome them in america and for their children to have better lives especially education. um, "d's and f's" have nothing to do with it. many of these people never had an education past elementary, high school or it was sporadic because of circumstances whereas you are assuming they purposely were slacking off. some countries you have to pay for any type of education out of pocket, some are too poor to afford education, some can't because of their family situation taking care of parents or siblings etc. it's a different situation where they came from. and yes, there are plenty of second or third generation americans whose parents are not educated but worked thier butt off to make sure their kids did, oftentimes they are the first ones in the family to attain higher education.
 
Old 08-07-2009, 01:46 PM
 
31 posts, read 31,824 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungeon View Post
Cherry Sakura, you are wrong Africans hold the highest rate of bachelors education in America. That report you read you must have either read it wrong-due to the slantage of your eyes.

Your also wrong on the prison stats because a black is 5 times more likely to be convicted of the exact same crime as accused as a white under the same circumstances and a Hispanic 3.5 times more likely. You also neglect to mention the reverse effect of racial profiling. Blacks andhispanics get stopped 10 times more per capita by police hence it is more likely a black criminal will be caught than a white criminal. You also neglect to mention that in rural areas there are only 5 cops to patrol a whole town so white people get away with dealing drugs unless they blow up their house with oxycotin labs or show up at the hospital from overdosing. There are no undercover cops in scranton.

Just admit it, asian people are the most greedy, asian american people don't go into any field that doesn't include science or a high pay. If a chinese doesn't get into a ivey league school he gets a belt on his azz. I'd rather be poor and happy n live a religious life, which I am none of to be honest than to be a rich asian who doesn't believe in Gd.

im from a small town and in fact their are detectives and undercover cops in towns with populations as low as 15,000 people and maybe lower. are the blacks and hispanics convicted at a higher rate because of being repeat offenders? and does getting those repeat offenders pad the stats of officers leading to promotions and criminals behind bars?

wow judgeon you are really really stupid. hope you dont throw that ignorant racism around in real life. im under the impression youre one of those kids that gets on forums and tries to "spice things up" by trying to infuriate people with senseless trash talking. i will volly. judgeon you are quite the little tool and i hope your mother has enough sense to monitor you internet useage beyond this point. you spelled a few words right so im assuming youre too old to be grounded for more than a couple weeks but be careful your parents can still keep you from getting a car or a drivers liscense or going to the johanas brothers concert.
 
Old 08-07-2009, 04:10 PM
 
261 posts, read 584,636 times
Reputation: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by leaana View Post
um, you don't know what you are talking about. just because someone was poor in another country does not mean they all have a bad character or are not hard-working. it's obvious you fail to see the reality that many immigrants are from very unfortunate backgrounds who worked very hard to overcome them in america and for their children to have better lives especially education. um, "d's and f's" have nothing to do with it. many of these people never had an education past elementary, high school or it was sporadic because of circumstances whereas you are assuming they purposely were slacking off. some countries you have to pay for any type of education out of pocket, some are too poor to afford education, some can't because of their family situation taking care of parents or siblings etc. it's a different situation where they came from. and yes, there are plenty of second or third generation americans whose parents are not educated but worked thier butt off to make sure their kids did, oftentimes they are the first ones in the family to attain higher education.
I don't dispute any of what you just said
 
Old 08-07-2009, 04:27 PM
 
261 posts, read 584,636 times
Reputation: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maude Kipz View Post
jungeon is an obvious troll.

I've wondered the same. Mexicans weren't kidnapped from mexico and forced into slavery, but they carry the a similar stigma as african-americans. However, alongside the asians that immigrated over, italians and the irish also had really ugly beginnings in america and neither is considered an issue today (the irish weren't known for crime. the irish were known for being poor, unskilled and uneducated). Speaking of England, why don't they have a bunch of irish people selling drugs and shooting at each other and having a general hatred for the english man that's "holding them down?" England's past treatment of the irish made american slave owners look like saints.

I'm not going to compare recently-immigrated (in the past 40 years) people to those who's ancestors came 200 years ago. They came from entirely different politics. Of course they're not going to act the same just because their skin color is similar. I'm comparing all groups of immigrants that had it tough 75-300 (pre-civil rights) years ago going down very different paths. Even the dreaded mafia of the 30's mostly dissipated and italian-americans are just "another american" now days. Even if most of the mexicans and african-americans I meet are decent people, why does such a large percentage of those groups think that a life of blatant disrespect and crime is acceptable?
I think your a troll because you come on here and talk non sense.

Mexicans have a different history than America, I am not fully aware of why their situation is they way it is but have some guesses as to why based on what I know about native americas which is alot. Yes Italians, Czechs, Jews and Irish were accused of the exact same things as blacks and mexicans were to day, the Irish were called black and considered black, many married blacks in New York. Watch Gangs of New York or read about New York history. Well The Italian mob just obliterated all the other gangs that existed at its time including the irish ones and the Italian Mafia is basically the only white gang life besides skin heads and white supremist. If you think the Italian mafia is not a problem today, it comes from an ignorance on your part of Italian culture. the mafia kills more than street gangs, the only difference is it doesn't make 6 oclock news when you shoot a guy in your basement and burry his body in a cemetary your brother owns. Italian crime is just as bad as it ever was, the only difference is that people don't see them shooting people in braod day light so they get away with it.

American slave owners make Hitler look like Jesus. Slave owners who killed 12 million black people by dumping them over seas. As for no irish men selling drugs and shooting down each other, ever heard of the IRA? What is the main stereotype of the irish, violenent alcoholics.

You want to know why gangs are a problem in the black community, watch the house we live in. When you are robbed of your wealth and future earnings because of the color of your skin naturally you will be poor. Poor neighbourhoods have gangs because its easier to recruit someone into a gang who comes from a tough neighbourhood. Why, cause no one wants to be a vicitim and to a 16 y/o dropping out of school and smoking dope all day and having a gun, and not being a victim with bling seems dam cool. No one likes being poor and if all you have to do is sell some drugs to make more money than you ever seen its hard not to do.

Look at Italians, look at sicily today, it makes an america ghetto look like paradise
 
Old 08-07-2009, 04:35 PM
 
261 posts, read 584,636 times
Reputation: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by phreak9 View Post
im from a small town and in fact their are detectives and undercover cops in towns with populations as low as 15,000 people and maybe lower. are the blacks and hispanics convicted at a higher rate because of being repeat offenders? and does getting those repeat offenders pad the stats of officers leading to promotions and criminals behind bars?

wow judgeon you are really really stupid. hope you dont throw that ignorant racism around in real life. im under the impression youre one of those kids that gets on forums and tries to "spice things up" by trying to infuriate people with senseless trash talking. i will volly. judgeon you are quite the little tool and i hope your mother has enough sense to monitor you internet useage beyond this point. you spelled a few words right so im assuming youre too old to be grounded for more than a couple weeks but be careful your parents can still keep you from getting a car or a drivers liscense or going to the johanas brothers concert.
Wow did ya moma teach you to write that. I lived in several small towns, I lived in northern Ontario where ever house was either a grow op or a house full of city slickers who come up north to do pot because they know they are not going to get caught. 1 police station with 5 active duty police at any given time to patrol an area 3 times the size of new york city. I could wip out a missel launcher and blow up a road and no one would see. Not to mention the fact that when there are only 5 cops, no point in having undercover cops because everyone knows your a cop already.

I guess America is a bit different because there is dea and atf and a few other federal police agencies who track drug use to the country side. But I can tell you that as far as Canada goes and to a lesser extent america, if you do illegal activity your far less likely to get caught because there are less people to report you if they see you doing something illegal, less cops to catch you fleeing a scene, more places to hide, not to mention average police response time in boise can be 30 minutes not 9 to 6 like in major cities
 
Old 08-07-2009, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Sandpoint, Idaho
2,880 posts, read 5,074,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherry sakura View Post
.
So that's basically the gist of my view on the model minority myth. A lot of the "myth" is actually true, and they are attributable to cultural attitudes regarding education and achievement. Education being correlative to income, it comes as no surprise that we don't see a lot of Asian homeless people or Asian criminals. On an related note, I had an Asian-American friend who, as part of a sociology experiment, posed for a day as a homeless panhandler. At the end of the day, it turned out that he got the most $$$ out of everyone in his project group. With all the variables accounted for, they finally concluded that being Asian helped my friend collect more money. People probably concluded that for an Asian man to be out on the street begging for change, he must have been in some dire, dire straits.
Like Leanna, I largely agree with your post. But I though I would add a few responses.

I am not fond of the label "model minority" owing to so many conflicting factors that renders the label useless. I taught for a number of years at a leading university in Asia in a country which consistently scores at or near the top on international standardized tests. By teaching locally, I teach to a distribution that more closely represents the actual distribution of Asian students than does the test scores of selected Asian immigrants in selected elite districts in California or Virginia. I can assure you that a great % of Asian kids are not spurred on by shame. Moreover, they are essentially bullied and herded into studying 5-10 times as many hours a week than American students by education systems which are both antiquated and which limit spots so that competition on the basis of test scores is artificially enhanced. Finally, the Asians that make it to university are only those that competed well to get into university, whereas the US university takes in its fair share of remedial students. This means that despite teaching locally, I still see a biased sample, with far fewer representatives of the lower tail (although also missing the very top who go the US or Europe).

So many of Asian Americans that have immigrated in the past generation are themselves or offspring of the creme de la creme of their country's elite, whether fantastic test takers themselves or genuine scholars. Whichever their type, they have proven themselves survivors of the brutal screening processes of their home countries and are primed to compete in the US. Offspring of such immigrants usually come with extremely high expectations and pedigree, not to mention large budgets for their educational development.

Note that while I was not overly impressed with the intellectual capabilities of most Asian students (like in the US, the top 3% are super, the top 20% very solid, and the bottom 20% not deserving of a spot in university), I was impressed at their ability to compete for each grade point, to memorize, and to master test taking. But not surprising, really. In every single NE Asian school system and a couple of SE Asian systems, it is compete or suffer a life in the underclass. The costs of educational failure is very steep in Asia, so much so that poor students (and many other students) would rather memorize according to a predetermined plan than risk idealism

So really, the comparison is apples versus oranges as far as comparing racial groups. A truer test would be a historical analysis in comparing the plight of largely uneducated Chinese immigrants of 100 years ago. But even this would be inadequate given the far more profound institutionalized racism against blacks.


The best predictors for economic success remains parental education, followed by (in no particular order) two parents in the home, English language fluency, family income, and one's own education (including educational attainment, area of study, and educational performance). On all of these factors, Northeast Asian immigrants score exceptionally well and Black Americans as a group score poorly. Southeast or South Asians have a more mixed set of results.

Ironically, the tight positive correlations of economic success for NE Asians also means higher bars, something one sees in university admissions, whereas, the tight negative correlations for blacks means a greater chance for economic success for blacks whose indicators match the Asian means. In other words, blacks who come from college or graduate school educated parents, are fluent in English, who come from wealthier families, who themselves have attained college or graduate degrees in high income areas (engineering, MBA, etc.) and did well in doing so, face economic prospects that well beyond those of Asians with similar scores, i.e. this is the golden age for elite blacks.

So what to make of this? I think the answer would be race-specific. For Asians, the move away from their "Asian-ness" toward the embrace of more cultural Americanism would probably enhance both economic and political clout, both of which are under-served by the educational investments made. In other words, shift the focus of time invested.

For blacks, it is learn from the NE Asian and, approach to education and family. I would also add the approach taken by certain South Asians & the most obvious model (and my favorite) for Americans, the Jewish model of education & family. The combination of rigour and discipline together with freedom for expression and intellectual curiosity is powerful. One need only look at their domination of science, technology, and medicine to be intrigued. Black policy activists should seek policies that will push blacks toward at least 80% of the mean of Asians and Jews on each of the key indicator variables (and if you are wondering why English is included, well there are a number of large Afro-Carribean communities in which language truly is an issue. In addition, native-born Americans regardless of color have terribly poor habits in English and expository composition and often write much worse than immigrants who were taught proper construction).

For poorer Hispanics, there is a great need to shed the anti-establishment & machismo in the approach to education. The elites in Latin countries are among the most sophisticated I have ever met. Yet the gulf is far more along social class lines. However, the one variable that has consistently mattered most is fluency in English. With this, chance for success are greatly diminished. To do this, poor Latinos need to extricate themselves from the liberal Latino elite who pushes fantasy and neo-Marxist rhetoric and builds a great psychological wall between the student and the success that would otherwise be accessible. More recent Latino immigrants face a greater climb than even lower quartile blacks as their language and cultural adjustments are added on to virtually no educational or positive SES backgrounds.

Context is everything: in analysis, as well as in understanding and in designing appropriate policy resolutions. But it should be clear that for most, "DNA" and "deeper culture" play a back seat to selectivity and economic & political factors of most immigrants and minorities that themselves have shaped the populations we see today.

S.
 
Old 08-07-2009, 06:27 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
16,471 posts, read 33,437,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandpointian View Post
So many of Asian Americans that have immigrated in the past generation are themselves or offspring of the creme de la creme of their country's elite, whether fantastic test takers themselves or genuine scholars. Whichever their type, they have proven themselves survivors of the brutal screening processes of their home countries and are primed to compete in the US. Offspring of such immigrants usually come with extremely high expectations and pedigree, not to mention large budgets for their educational development.
No. You are completely wrong about this. Many Asian immigrants aren't the elite. If they were the elite, they would have stayed in their home countries. Or like many of the students I see now at Harvard and MIT, there are many foreign students who are only there to study, get their degrees and then return home to their own country. And not all of those students are from the elite in their home country. Many are here in the US with the combined financial help of many family members with borrowed money that is expected to be paid back.

For all immigrants, being in America is considered a special and golden opportunity. Not only that, but most Asian nationalities do admire academic prowess, especially the those from the lower classes as getting a good education is achievable and seen as a means for bettering ones station in life. But even Asians with wealth and power admire a great scholar and his achievements. The same holds true for the Jewish community. The average American does not admire academic prowess, and that includes the blacks and Hispanics that have multi-generational ties here.
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