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However having lived in New Orleans, SD, Miami, New York City I see the same thing, you see the rap culture everywhere. I don't know why but you just don't see all black upscale cities, it's usually the other way around, the worse part of town is always the black side/Hispanic side.
Answer me this, why do majority of black kids embrace the gangster/rapper lifestyle? What happened to the days of Doo Wop and now it's all rap music. BET is no doing anyone any favors it's only furthering stereotypes if you ask me. We need more Bill Cosby's
However having lived in New Orleans, SD, Miami, New York City I see the same thing, you see the rap culture everywhere. I don't know why but you just don't see all black upscale cities, it's usually the other way around, the worse part of town is always the black side/Hispanic side.
Answer me this, why do majority of black kids embrace the gangster/rapper lifestyle? What happened to the days of Doo Wop and now it's all rap music. BET is no doing anyone any favors it's only furthering stereotypes if you ask me. We need more Bill Cosby's
I agree that one of the worst sides of town is typically the impoverished side of town...blacks typically do compose the poverty stricken in cities. I think the embracing of rap culture stems from
A) the exploitation of "ghetto" culture(NOT black...the two are not synonymous) by mass media - The majority of mass media is not controlled by Blacks. Rap, once embraced by the mainstream (meaning suburbia), incentivized impoverished/undereducated urban youth to aspire towards quick easy money..whether through rap culture or the things promoted by rap culture.
B) a majority of "black kids" do not embrace gangster rap culture...BUT the majority of ghetto black kids embrace gangster rap culture because they come from that culture...it is not an act that they willfully turn on and turn off at their disposal.
I know I keep harkening back to this but it does have its merit: Due to the fact that so many blacks were prevented from having fair opportunities at the American dream for so many generations, many blacks and their extended families have been poor, uneducated, and living in ghettos for multiple generations. They are not even aware of how they are...And they are not aware that there is different way of living that is actually attainable to them (though perhaps not all of them).
C) Many blacks, have been taught to be ethnocentric. Not afrocentric, but ethnocentric. They have been taught to stick with their ethnic background because as soon as one's guard is dropped and you trust others, you will be disrespected or made to feel inferior. Which I personally can attest to myself...Normally when you disregard color, and give people a chance to treat you as their equal, as soon they get comfortable enough to accept that you are not the stereotypical threat they once perceived you to be, then thats when the unwarranted racial jokes and ethnic slurs start flying. This has proven to be the case almost invariably (particularly in work environments)
Too, most blacks will also attest to the fact that, so often, no matter how much one wants to embrace cultures outside of the gangster rap culture, and be viewed as "just another face in the crowd"...those blacks will often STILL be pigeon holed into their stereotypes (whether warranted or not) and barred from receiving an unbiased perception of them; regardless of the fact that they show no indications of being a stereotypical so and so.
Still I think this is something that could be improved upon by blacks themselves (regardless of the fact that the teaching has historically been well merited.) I think blacks (specifically urban blacks) could do more to encourage their kids to explore different cultures. But if one is poor and surrounded by only one culture, that task becomes even more daunting.
Last edited by solytaire; 06-09-2009 at 02:49 PM..
Location: Pittsburgh but I'm ready to relocate......
727 posts, read 1,891,044 times
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You all are so blind that your not able to see concrete facts even if I supplied them. I let blind ignorant people continue to be blind ignorant people!! Read Jimmy Lynch Letters......Go do research on The Black Wall street..........
You all are so blind that your not able to see concrete facts even if I supplied them. I let blind ignorant people continue to be blind ignorant people!! Read Jimmy Lynch Letters......Go do research on The Black Wall street..........
B) a majority of "black kids" do not embrace gangster rap culture...BUT the majority of ghetto black kids embrace gangster rap culture because they come from that culture...it is not an act that they willfully turn on and turn off at their disposal.
I know I keep hearkening back to this but it does have its merit: Due to the fact that so many blacks were prevented from having fair opportunities at the American dream for so many generations, many blacks and their extended families have been poor, uneducated, and living in ghettos for multiple generations. They are not even aware of how they are...And they are not aware that there is different way of living that is actually attainable to them (though perhaps not all of them).
I'm not one for giving people every excuse in the book to continue in mediocrity, but historically, this is all fact. The thing that I propose out of this is not to use these "historical facts" as "present excuses" for the continuation of such impoverished living.
Also, it's not especially the fact that the current ghetto culture promoted in the media is the thing holding blacks back. It's the fact that they dispose it on each other as an expectation, hence the ideal of being "black enough." And it's not necessary the ones who are in the ghetto in general that are the biggest detriment to Black Americans (even though I do admit the % of people who live in the black ghettos yet don't bother with anybody are rather low). It's those who go off with no regard acting like the stereotype the "Liberal" media portrays them to be all while chastising those blacks who want to do something better with their lives than live like leeches/thugs/jiggaboos/Negros by calling them "sell-outs" and "white-washed." It's immature enough to display such behavior during one's childhood and teen years, but when the human conscious and maturity comes into fruition and one knows the general rule of what's right and what's wrong, displaying the same behavior is beyond sad and IMO out of reach for any sympathy from anyone. All the while these degenerates are not only allowed to commit such acts of atrocity and spew such garbage, they are elevated to leaders, role models, and living gods of the black community. It's these people who need to be knocked off of their thrones if anything positive is going to occur with the poor/working class blacks.
Quote:
C) Many blacks, have been taught to be ethnocentric. Not afrocentric, but ethnocentric. They have been taught to stick with their ethnic background because as soon as one's guard is dropped and you trust others, you will be disrespected or made to feel inferior. Which I personally can attest to myself...Normally when you disregard color, and give people a chance to treat you as their equal, as soon they get comfortable enough to accept that you are not the stereotypical threat they once perceived you to be, then thats when the unwarranted racial jokes and ethnic slurs start flying. This has proven to be the case almost invariably (particularly in work environments)
Too, most blacks will also attest to the fact that, so often, no matter how much one wants to embrace cultures outside of the gangster rap culture, and be viewed as "just another face in the crowd"...those blacks will often STILL be pigeon holed into their stereotypes (whether warranted or not) and barred from receiving an unbiased perception of them; regardless of the fact that they show no indications of being a stereotypical so and so.
This I find true in places where "group/herd" mentality of thought holds true, which is mostly in the Old South and East Coast (including the more "liberal parts" of those regions). However, where the value of individuality and libertarianism are more of the rule-of-the-land (i.e. most of the Western US), it's possible for blacks to not stand out and just be "one of the crowd." The only major sacrifice is not being surrounded by other blacks; but it those were the same people whom most of the source of one's problems (as it is for most non-stereotypical blacks), why in the hell would you still want to be near such garbage. And in addition, how is wanting to be around other blacks any different than a white person saying "I want to mainly be around other whites!"
I'm not one for giving people every excuse in the book to continue in mediocrity, but historically, this is all fact. The thing that I propose out of this is not to use these "historical facts" as "present excuses" for the continuation of such impoverished living.
I agree with this and you'll notice that I never condone nor accept, to any terminal degree, the use of those historical facts, nor racism as 'excuses' for current behavior...One of my only gripes with this thread is that: the question posed has been WHY 'x' and 'y' culture behaves this way? (ie: "Whats wrong with so and so") Thats going to require an answer based on some causative reason. Unless we attribute everything to natural inclinations based on race; an assertion which has several holes in it.
But in this scenario the causative reason examined will have to be prior human conduct, if we are truly going to go to the depths of where the source of the symptoms. Now if the question ever becomes "What will it take, moving forward for 'x' and 'y' culture to behave with greater rectitude?" Then historical facts will not carry the same weight in that discussion. And we can focus on what those groups can do THEMSELVES to endear themselves to greater success in education and affluence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fairfaxian
Also, it's not especially the fact that the current ghetto culture promoted in the media is the thing holding blacks back. It's the fact that they dispose it on each other as an expectation, hence the ideal of being "black enough." And it's not necessary the ones who are in the ghetto in general that are the biggest detriment to Black Americans (even though I do admit the % of people who live in the black ghettos yet don't bother with anybody are rather low). It's those who go off with no regard acting like the stereotype the "Liberal" media portrays them to be all while chastising those blacks who want to do something better with their lives than live like leeches/thugs/jiggaboos/Negros by calling them "sell-outs" and "white-washed." It's immature enough to display such behavior during one's childhood and teen years, but when the human conscious and maturity comes into fruition and one knows the general rule of what's right and what's wrong, displaying the same behavior is beyond sad and IMO out of reach for any sympathy from anyone. All the while these degenerates are not only allowed to commit such acts of atrocity and spew such garbage, they are elevated to leaders, role models, and living gods of the black community. It's these people who need to be knocked off of their thrones if anything positive is going to occur with the poor/working class blacks.
While I think what you say here is true, and I certainly agree with the sentiment, Im not sure I agree with the premise for the sentiment. Im not convinced there arent even deeper reasons for those blacks allowing their progress to be impeded by "ghetto" blacks....
I mean, I have long said that one of the primary hindrances of black progress is that too many affluent blacks LITERALLY cant truly distance themselves from the less progressive element in the race...As we see with whites, and what they refer to in their race as: "white trash". Its quite noticeable how quickly whites distance themselves from that element of their race; and rightfully so, should I say. However Blacks simply cannot do the same, and so the same cannot be said of blacks.
But also, I think, there is strength in numbers, and in truth there just arent enough blacks for them to separate and segregate themselves along economic stratifications without forfeiting political power, economic mobility, and cultural integrity. Obviously more progressive blacks are excoriated by their own kind for distancing themselves from "ghetto" culture. Could this be because they know that for one black to dissimilate from the accepted cultural norm, is to compromise the power that blacks have found in unity? I dont know. But it would take an entire cultural shift in order for the black culture to change for the better while remaining an effective, relevant part of the political process. Unlike the prevailing race who, though they have their problems and a lowerclass element as well, are able to splinter off into little subgroups, and special interest groups, and political tangents, with each group carrying an interest and enough political leverage that will still reflect a goodly portion of their racial population.
But IMO lack of unity is not the problem in the black community anymore, the problem is, as you alluded to, the over conformity among its youth. And being unified, while moving in the wrong direction is not productive either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fairfaxian
This I find true in places where "group/herd" mentality of thought holds true, which is mostly in the Old South and East Coast (including the more "liberal parts" of those regions). However, where the value of individuality and libertarianism are more of the rule-of-the-land (i.e. most of the Western US), it's possible for blacks to not stand out and just be "one of the crowd." The only major sacrifice is not being surrounded by other blacks; but it those were the same people whom most of the source of one's problems (as it is for most non-stereotypical blacks), why in the hell would you still want to be near such garbage. And in addition, how is wanting to be around other blacks any different than a white person saying "I want to mainly be around other whites!"
I think it is acceptable for people to want to be around others with whom they have natural commonalities. Its one of the reasons that I DO NOT regard whites or any other race who expresses a preference to surround themselves with other members from within their own race, as racist. I think where the mentality becomes destructive is when one EXCLUDES others entirely, solely on the basis of race and preconceptions of that race. I dont think there is anything at all wrong with an individual saying they feel more comfortable around others who share cultural simliarities or who look like themselves. I have always viewed the uproar over that sentiment as an exercise in frivolity.
The problem arises, as I see it, when we (historically, of course) create, endorse, and maintain INSTITUTIONS, (and the obstacles therein) that systematically restrict certain members of society from having the same opportunities at economic, educational, and political advancement through exclusion based on the criterion of race.
I think this is where the ideology of "stay close to your own kind" or "I prefer to be around those who look like me" morphs from a mantra of harmless ambiguity into a societal culture of racial disharmony. Because once again, strength is in numbers and particularly so for a demographic that has, until the very latter part of this century, only HAD its very small numbers on which to rely. I think the adherence of some blacks to the "ghetto" culture is a learned psychological relic from a cultural tradition of individual blacks investing in the progress of African Americans through the only power structure available to blacks in this country at one time; cultural unity.
Last edited by solytaire; 06-09-2009 at 09:00 PM..
Generalizations are not "the rule". And those who have no problem with blanket generalizations regarding race will be the first ones to protest should those same generalizations be used about their own race.
Do hillbillies and trailer park residents soley represent White Americans?
Generalization is not the correct term. I'm talking about averages. The majority of Black folks are, indeed, fine upstanding citizens. I never said that they were not.
White hillbiliies and White trailer park residents do not create the problems that are created by a certain segment of the Black community. Blacks are about 12% of the population but commit in excess of 50% of the violent crime. The Black illegitimacy rate in over 70%. AIDS and other STD's are epidemic in the Black community.
However, if you consider the demographic of Blacks who are the cause of these problems you are probably talking about 25% of the Black community. For example, its Black males between the ages of 15 and 40 who are commiting most of the crime in the Black community which may well be less than 25% of the black community and only about 4% or 5% of the total population.
Call it an experiment it was my first one in great debates that is provocative.
Another part of me believes that there is no reason for blacks and Hispanics to be "down trodden" as they are. It's not b/c of the color of their skin but a culture thing that no seems in a big hurry to fix.
I think that your original question as to why black people are disproportionately represented in poverty and ghettos has been answered quite thoroughly on this forum. Particularly by SandPointian, XXclimberX, MarqueseGilmore and Solytaire. And yet here you write again that "there is no reason for blacks and Hispanics to be downtrodden as they are". You keep repeating this same idea in varying structure throughout this thread, without directly responding to any of the great posts made by the aforementioned people.
I have a proposal. You do not believe there is a reason because you do not wish to believe there is a reason. Simple.
Location: Pittsburgh but I'm ready to relocate......
727 posts, read 1,891,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire
Hey Marquese,
Are you referring to the Willie Lynch Letter?
Yeah I meant Willie Lynch?
I'm so weary when it comes to the discussion of race. What I see is alot of underline racism. You have whites and non-blacks who think they "know whats best" for the Black community!! But no one wants to look at actual facts! Imagine the cycles that goes on in some of the more disenfranchised and disadvantaged neighboorhoods. Put yourself in those shoes. You have to step out of your skin to know what the black plight is and we are the way we are. Now some of the posts are stereotypical and overexxaggerated. You have to really look at how black people were brought to America,before anything.
Location: Pittsburgh but I'm ready to relocate......
727 posts, read 1,891,044 times
Reputation: 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milwaukee City
However having lived in New Orleans, SD, Miami, New York City I see the same thing, you see the rap culture everywhere. I don't know why but you just don't see all black upscale cities, it's usually the other way around, the worse part of town is always the black side/Hispanic side.
Answer me this, why do majority of black kids embrace the gangster/rapper lifestyle? What happened to the days of Doo Wop and now it's all rap music. BET is no doing anyone any favors it's only furthering stereotypes if you ask me. We need more Bill Cosby's
This is the problem!!
This is the problem!! Alot of white people still have the master mentality!! For the record very small percent of Hiphop is gangster! We are free and can listen to what we want. Are you intimidated by hiphop culture? Why is it that people are afraid what they dont understand?
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