Govt workers should not be immune from layoffs (enemies, soldiers, March)
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Are you saying that our government is not responsible in any way for the economic mess we are in? Where are you from, Mars?
Where do you think the money comes from to pay the salaries of all the lazy, worthless gov’t bureaucrats? Mostly taxes, that's where. And I’m not suggesting we fire *all* of the gov’t bureaucrats—or even fire all of the lazy worthless ones (which is about 75%). Just the bottom third or so.
Feel better? Maybe not. But I don't feel that lazy, worthless govt bureaucrats deserve a lifetime free ride. They should have to earn their keep and be productive members of society, rather than wards of the state. And when the government has a bad year (or bad decade), they should feel the consequences just like those in private industry.
Firing one-third of the lazy, worthless govt bureaucrats would not be an all-healing panacea. But it would be a step in the right direction.
This I agree with. All the more reason to fire some of the bums.
And I suppose you consider yourself to be a real thinker with all the answers. Meh.
Can you please provide examples of "lazy, worthless gov't bureaucrats" that you so obviously hate? Not names of individuals, but positions. Not opinions, but facts.
Thank you very much for your time and cooperation.
Seems like all companies are laying off workers and closing plants. Why not the federal government? After all, they had a pretty bad year too. The federal government caused much of the economic mess we are in.
I say we lay off one-third of our federal bureaucrats. It would lighten our tax burden. And besides, there are at least that many lazy federal bureaucrats who aren’t really doing much to earn their salaries.
Is there any reason why federal bureaucrats should have guaranteed jobs for life when the rest of the U.S. suffers?
"Real thinkers", in my definition, would be those people who seem to have a knack for seeing right through the thin veneer of obfuscation that passes for news today. I see that some of the posters want to take the statements of others and address them point by point, I personally don't feel that my thoughts or words are going to affect the outcome of anything of consequence. It should suffice to say that we who can see the futility of lashing out at the federal worker, will always be able to see the ruse that created their employment in the first place. Most American's are feeling the pain of the system, high taxes and low expectations have been the norm of government in our country for a very long time. It is the system itself that creates the wealth that is derived from thin air, someone asked,"where do you think the money comes from?" Well, the money actually comes right out of machines that are the sole property of the unholy alliance of business, banking, and government. Someone also said "I agree that government is a lackey of large corporations", I assumed that to see this connection between business and government would allow people to see the real power behind government and therefore the futility in thinking that we will ever have any say in things governmental. The folks who work at government jobs are easy pickings in the mind of those who see the lack of efficient use of their tax dollars. That said, I don't think any intelligent person would suggest that our government is a bastion of efficiency, nor do I think that firing one third or so will get back any money from the government. Why? The answer is quite simple really, tax dollars are the primary income for all those business' that really ARE the government, there, that is the real reason for all of the focus being on the governments internal operating cost, rather than government expenditures to it's true constituentcy, big business. Whatever gets cut as operating cost goes right back into the coffers of the so called "private sector", only, they don't look so private right now. Who is to blame for the economic mess we're in today? Well, I'd say it was the usual gang of suspects that have been fleecing us for centuries, and that would be the unholy alliance, again. The winners in this recent reversal of fortune for so many has been the fat cats from wall street, not government workers, the working class is still largely populated by those folk's in their three bedroom two bath homes. If we are to see any real changes take place I think we first have to identify the real culprits who deny us any real oppertunity to create a positive impact upon OUR society, not just their's. In the meantime, I will try to post my thoughts as a way of keeping the structure of my frustration intact, I know disgreements are the norm in our country right now, but careful reading of every post has brought me to a point wherein I can hear the frustrations of others also. I like the idea of this forum being reserved for thoughtful posting, some sites, such as CL are turning into real jousting sessions between posters, replying is justified, but it never will get beyond the fact that all of us are merely stating our opinions. No, I'm not from some other planet, I'm an American, living in the "American hologram" as Joe Bageant calls our socio-political construct, I only wish that things were as easily fixable as some folks have implied. Having the working class turn on itself, as a way of "evening out" the obvious unfairness that has become a staple in the American experience would be the fulfilling of corporate thieves dreams, if I want a better shake in life I know I'll need to have a good grip on the facts that have been ignored or hidden. Again, I don't have any answer, other than to note what I see and experience. The answer to our collective problems certainly won't be found on web forums such as this one, but, we can share our collective thoughts this way, and gain some insight to how others feel about certain subjects, I take all posts as the proof of our caring about our lives, the fact that we disagree is the one overiding request of this sites administration, it's not going to be all in agreement, but we can still post thoughtfully.
Pssst.....none of those people are federal employees.
i beg to differ ---federal money does enter into law enforcement, teaching and social work indirectly.
but you are correct not much direct employment..
federal police have been privatized big time already.
Seems like all companies are laying off workers and closing plants. Why not the federal government? After all, they had a pretty bad year too. The federal government caused much of the economic mess we are in.
I say we lay off one-third of our federal bureaucrats. It would lighten our tax burden. And besides, there are at least that many lazy federal bureaucrats who aren’t really doing much to earn their salaries.
Is there any reason why federal bureaucrats should have guaranteed jobs for life when the rest of the U.S. suffers?
Who or what do you consider "buraucrats" ? I work for the DoD, and my work directly affects national security. I am very proud of that.
Furthermore, you can thank the CEO's and overly paid waste of spaces that run the companies that are laying people off, NOT the federal government. For you to wish someone to lose their job is selfish and hateful.
Don't forget their retirement package. Growing up and living in the DC area I have many friends and neighbors who were career fedreal civil servants. All of them are retiring very comfortably in their mid to late fifties. The government invested their retirement funds and didn't spend the money like they did with Social Security. Since the rest of us paid their salary and retirement why do we have to work until 67 or 70 or forever when they have been protected? As far as the line that they're underpaid compared to the private sector - that's complete BS based on my experience.
The whining is killing me. The government people I know and work with have to put in 30 years and be at least 55 to retire. So someone was smart and got a job right out of high school or college and stayed with the government, and they get to retire if they so wish at 55. So what ? They worked all those years, they are entitled to retirement. If you have such heartburn that you don't get the same benefits, get a government job.
What about the people who put themselves in harms way for the safety of the nation, or work hard to protect national security ? Do you begrudge them too of a job and retirement ?
I'd like to know what's the average yearly earnings of a federal Civil servant middle of the ladder (let's say recruited from HS or College) at the end of his career?
I'd like to know what's the average yearly earnings of a federal Civil servant middle of the ladder (let's say recruited from HS or College) at the end of his career?
It depends on what Grade and Step within his grade he is when he retires. Someone right out of highschool would not start at a very high grade, nor would someone with an Associates Degree.
If the person continued their education and/or obtained experience, they could apply for jobs at the next grade level.
Can you please provide examples of "lazy, worthless gov't bureaucrats" that you so obviously hate? Not names of individuals, but positions. Not opinions, but facts.
Thank you very much for your time and cooperation.
Hate? I don’t hate them. Not at all. I just think they should pull their weight. You know, contribute to society in a meaningful way. As for specific examples of lazy, worthless gov't bureaucrats, you can take your pick. Nearly every nook and cranny of the federal government is chock full of them. You can see them dragging in late to work everyday in their rumpled poly-blend Hagar suits, taking 90 minute lunches, and then dozing through the afternoon until they have clocked the mandatory time they are required to be present at their “job.” I feel sorry for people who waste their lives doing this day after day, for years at a time. But not sorry enough to think they should continue the free ride at taxpayer expense.
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