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Old 10-07-2009, 07:24 PM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 3,638,628 times
Reputation: 591

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVlover View Post
I would estimate since the time I became a Christian in 1986 , that I have visited approx. 50 Churches of varying congregational size and out of those, it was apparent that they were either struggling financially or making ends meet without a huge surplus left over. This was evidenced by the meager surroundings, old carpetting, very worn pews , non lavish Organ/Piano , and the like. But regardless, these kinds of Churches are sold out for seeing people come to Christ for complete forgivness of sins so they dont have to enter a God-less eternity where they will feel severe regret for the decision to reject God all of their earthly life when they didnt have to. Further, I have personally been on Trustee Committees at Churches were I am privy to the financial condition of the particular Church and see the money that comes in and the many expenses that they incur to stay open.

Im afraid most Critics base what they see on TV with the smooth talking Televangelists trying to get the Viewer to donate money to thier Church...as typical of ALL Churches in America. That is not only inaccurate , but is disengenuous and a very presumptuous conclusion to arrive at.

I personally know a Pastor who has a 150 attendee Church that meets in an Elementary School for Worship on Sundays and Wednesday nights , and he works at the local Starbucks to supplement his Church salary so he can provide for himself and his family . This is a very typical situation with small to average size Churches. They particularly feel the pinch when the economy is bad as it is now, because the Congregation donates less during hard times.

More importantly, are you going to take a chance that there is no personal Creator to whom you will one day give an account for the way you lived your life , including keeping him out of your life ? I used to do that for many years ; but it is not a wise decision. It is far better to humbly come before God and surrender your life to him by asking for forgiveness for your sins , learning and growing in him, and having the assurance that it is safe for you to die at any time. I hope you will take this issue very seriously . Regards.
Where I live, all but one church gets upgraded every year... there is about 6 churches within 15-25 min walk from where I live.... They are spring up everywhere, the reason why I ask how much one cost.

In the Samoan church (full of Samoans, so I call it Samoan church), the read out their donations ever week, and at the end, they read out the names of the people who are members, who didn't donate.

As for a personal god, take it to the religion thread, I'll be happy to explain to you why your argument is flawed.
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Old 10-07-2009, 07:42 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,466,140 times
Reputation: 3869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
ques·tion (kwschn)n.1. a. An expression of inquiry that invites or calls for a reply.
b. An interrogative sentence, phrase, or gesture.

2. A subject or point open to controversy; an issue.
3. A difficult matter; a problem: a question of ethics.
4. A point or subject under discussion or consideration.
5. a. A proposition brought up for consideration by an assembly.
b. The act of bringing a proposal to vote.

6. Uncertainty; doubt: There is no question about the validity of the enterprise.


Let me make it a statement instead of a question, since you obviously didn't understand what was being said.


Your question made absolutely no sense whatever.
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Old 10-07-2009, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Boise
2,008 posts, read 2,909,345 times
Reputation: 729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
Thank you for sharing your anti-religious bigotry with us.


Really though, what difference does it make to you if a synagogue pays their rabbi big bucks? Or what a church pays its priest or pastor? Or a mosque pays its imam? It's not your money.
How is that bigotry? Any organization who makes enough to pay their pastor millions of dollars must have some kind of focus on money. And given the nature of human beings, money has a habit of getting to people, even the religious. You can't tell me that there aren't at least a few millionaire preachers out there who let the money go to their head.

As far as it not being my money, you are quite correct, it isn't. But I was asked about how fair I thought it was. Which led me to say that I don't see why anyone should make any more than those who do the most necessary of jobs. I can say for a fact that Pat Robertson, Jerry Fallwell or Ted Haggard have done absolutely nothing for me. But a great number of people buster their hump a million times more building the home I live in, the streets I drive on, the schools I have been to and so on. So why, in the context of fairness, do the people who do the most necessary of work deserve any less money than a millionaire who preaches to us that we are to avoid the earthly sins of loving money?
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Old 10-08-2009, 06:04 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,466,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleatis View Post
How is that bigotry? Any organization who makes enough to pay their pastor millions of dollars must have some kind of focus on money.
There's at least one problem with your second sentence.

Nobody has listed one single pastor who is paid millions of dollars.


You might as well be asking an irrelevant question like, "Should Barack Obama be allowed to keep his harem?"


So again, how many pastors do you know of, that you KNOW are making at least a million dollars per year salary?
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Old 10-08-2009, 06:13 AM
 
4,383 posts, read 8,682,847 times
Reputation: 2331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
Thank you for sharing your anti-religious bigotry with us.


Really though, what difference does it make to you if a synagogue pays their rabbi big bucks? Or what a church pays its priest or pastor? Or a mosque pays its imam? It's not your money.
Churches are subsidized by the government so I think there is a public intrest in how much its employees are paid.
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Old 10-08-2009, 06:20 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,466,140 times
Reputation: 3869
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2008 View Post
Churches are subsidized by the government so I think there is a public intrest in how much its employees are paid.
LOL!!!!!! Yeah, they sure are!


What, pray tell, are you talking about? Would you like to provide some proof to back up that absurd statement?
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Old 10-08-2009, 06:28 AM
 
4,383 posts, read 8,682,847 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
LOL!!!!!! Yeah, they sure are!


What, pray tell, are you talking about? Would you like to provide some proof to back up that absurd statement?
Charitable Contribution Deductions (Publication 78 Help, Part II) (http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=134331,00.html - broken link)
Church employees are also exempt from paying taxes on a substantial amount of their income(the housing deduction). This exemption doesn't apply to everyone else.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/11/bu...religious.html
Church employees can also opt out of social security(as I've read).

If you don't trust the NY times here is the link to the IRS.

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc417.html

Last edited by jdm2008; 10-08-2009 at 06:39 AM..
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Old 10-08-2009, 06:41 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,466,140 times
Reputation: 3869
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2008 View Post
Charitable Contribution Deductions (Publication 78 Help, Part II) (http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=134331,00.html - broken link)
Church employees are also exempt from paying taxes on a substantial amount of their income(the housing deduction). This exemption doesn't apply to everyone else.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/11/bu...religious.html
Church employees can also opt out of social security(as I've read).
Yep, you sure can receive a tax deduction for all charitable giving - including giving to religious organizations. I'm eligible for a tax deduction (though I use the Standard Deduction, rather than itemize) for money and clothing I give a downtown homeless shelter, and for donations made to The Red Cross.



Now... I'd still like you to back up your assertion that churches are subsidized by the government. Or were you intentionally making use of hyperbole?
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Old 10-08-2009, 06:51 AM
 
4,383 posts, read 8,682,847 times
Reputation: 2331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
Yep, you sure can receive a tax deduction for all charitable giving - including giving to religious organizations. I'm eligible for a tax deduction (though I use the Standard Deduction, rather than itemize) for money and clothing I give a downtown homeless shelter, and for donations made to The Red Cross.



Now... I'd still like you to back up your assertion that churches are subsidized by the government. Or were you intentionally making use of hyperbole?
I already listed them. See above. The fact that church employees can opt of out social security isn't a good example but all the others are absolutely subsidies. All of those benefits the church, and all those taxes the church doesn't have to pay and that is the public(the government).
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Old 10-08-2009, 06:58 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,466,140 times
Reputation: 3869
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2008 View Post
I already listed them. See above. The fact that church employees can opt of out social security isn't a good example but all the others are absolutely subsidies. All of those benefits the church, and all those taxes the church doesn't have to pay and that is the public(the government).
Do you actually know what subsidies are?

Perhaps you should just go ahead and admit that your comment about churches being subsidized by the government was just flat-out wrong.
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