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Old 05-26-2009, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 33,335,973 times
Reputation: 7038

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spac3d View Post
Manny Ramirez is a talented athlete which requires extreme physical conditioning (even without steroids).

Joel Osteen talks, behind a podium, in an arena, or on CNN.
While I'm sure that Joel Osteen could not hit a homerun to save his life, I'm not so sure that Manny could build a non-denominational, semi-revisionist, evangelical Christian empire that generates mountains of cash and pays no taxes. Also, if you will permit some devil's advocacy, if Manny is so talented why is he cheating?

Osteen, for what its worth, is a marketing/development genius who has put himself in a position of some considerable political power. I'm not sure if the question "why does he need a $1.5 million salary" really matters. He's doing it.

I don't think that he's actually an ordained minister but rather a church spokesman / worship leader. Does anyone know for certain?

EDIT: Actually, I'm assuming we're talking about Joel Osteen. Also keep in mind that Osteen's money is coming from investments, book sales, etc. etc. People have to be fairly careful with the appropriation of donations.
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Old 05-26-2009, 12:00 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,755,932 times
Reputation: 2524
What does it matter what is the occupation of an individual? The demand for a commodity is a factor on the price for that commodity.

If someone is willing to pay that preacher that much is for a reason. Maybe he has the personality to attract more people to listen to his message. What is wrong with that?

Trying to say someone must be paid more or less than others due to personal views is not a solid market principle.

Supply and demand are the major factors how much a commodity is worth.

That is why some sports figures get paid huge amounts of money. Do you think they get paid because of their looks? No, the owners are willing to pay that much because the people are willing to pay to see them.

It does not matter what activity it is, the employer always try to pay the least for the product and the seller is always trying to get them most for his product. The demand will help settle that. So if an owner is willing to pay millions of dollars it is because some other owner is willing to pay that much but he was able to outbid that other owner. His investment was worth that much because he expect it to bring dividends and that applies just the same for a preacher.

You have a great day.
El Amigo
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Old 05-26-2009, 12:23 PM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 1,845,510 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
What's the difference between Joel Osteen and Manny Ramirez, except maybe the steroids?
Talent...Osteen has none, he's just an idiot with primitive views and a lot of attention from the press. Ramirez, regardless of whether or not his career was fueled by steroids, is an incredibly talented hitter who gave the people of Boston something to cheer about for the first time in decades.

If you go to a Mega-Church, you are a moron. It's as simple as that. There is no such thing as a Mega-Church that doesn't cater to the dumbest idiots on the planet. Those idiots follow their "teachings" like sheep and cannot develop a single rational thought on their own. Mega-Churches are a cancer on American society and their influence had stood in the way of progress for decades.

How can anyone fall for that BS?
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Old 05-26-2009, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 33,335,973 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
What's the difference between Joel Osteen and Manny Ramirez, except maybe the steroids?
In a similar vein - what's the difference between Nancy Pelosi and Joel Osteen? Why should anyone tolerate a public servant using his or her position to leverage the generation of wealth?
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Old 05-26-2009, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,556,197 times
Reputation: 35864
How does anybody justify an income of a million dollars a year. In order to rise to such an income how many of the Seven Deadly Sins must be regularly committed:

pride, covetousness, lust, anger, gluttony, envy, and sloth.

How many of these must be violated?

In the Book of Proverbs, it is stated that the Lord specifically regards "six things the Lord hateth, and the seventh His soul detesteth." namely:

* haughty eyes
* A lying tongue
* Hands that shed innocent blood
* A heart that devises wicked plots
* Feet that are swift to run into mischief
* A deceitful witness that uttereth lies
* him that soweth discord among brethren

Do you think you can go up the ladder to a million dollar salary without doing those things?
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Old 05-26-2009, 12:37 PM
 
48,897 posts, read 39,392,211 times
Reputation: 30554
Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui View Post
a million dollar salary is at least 900 thousand too much. I also would like to see churches taxed, seems wrong for these institutions to be so wealthy, far too many don't do enough in the community to help the poor and hungry. on a related subject heads of charities should also not make a huge salary and the donations percentage should be heavy towards the charity it is helping not towards "expenses"
I think the IRS has cracked down on stuff like this. Essentially some family would found something like American Cancer Fighters and raise like a million dollars through solicitations. They'd pay expenses, hefty salaries and then pass maybe 20% on to fight cancer...basically like a sham charity.

I think there are now minimum qualifiers as to what % has to actually be used for the designated purposes. ie) 60% or some such.

I could see someone running an enormous organization like American Cancer Society or Red Cross making a 1million salary which is not out of line with execs for a large company (if not low). Thier statements, actions etc. can have a profound effect on how well the charity does so that's not unreasonable.
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Old 05-26-2009, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 33,335,973 times
Reputation: 7038
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
How does anybody justify an income of a million dollars a year. In order to rise to such an income how many of the Seven Deadly Sins must be regularly committed:

pride, covetousness, lust, anger, gluttony, envy, and sloth.

How many of these must be violated?

In the Book of Proverbs, it is stated that the Lord specifically regards "six things the Lord hateth, and the seventh His soul detesteth." namely:

* haughty eyes
* A lying tongue
* Hands that shed innocent blood
* A heart that devises wicked plots
* Feet that are swift to run into mischief
* A deceitful witness that uttereth lies
* him that soweth discord among brethren

Do you think you can go up the ladder to a million dollar salary without doing those things?
Actually, I'm fairly certain that an income of $1,000,000/year can be achieved without any of the above.

Case in point - there is an oilfield tool fabricator in Houston that I have had some association with in the past. The proprietor of the company is essentially a wildly successful welder. He started with absolutely nothing, found a niche and was skilled enough to outpace and outperform any competition.

*He is certainly a confident and self-assured man, but I don't think that translates to having "haughty eyes".

*The man has built his business and reputation on being a good-faith and honest operator.

*If his hands shed innocent blood, it is his own as he labors.

*He does devise wicked plots from time-to-time, like when he rigged a device to dunk his foreman's toothbrush into the shop toilet when he opened the door. Long story, but not a wicked heart in the biblical sense.

*His feet are actually swift into the domestic variety of mischief and prank, but I doubt he would be condemned for being hilarious.

*As for deceitful witness and sowing discord among his brethren, no. The man was a good father to his children and is a good employer to his workers. He doesn't suffer fools or solicitors, but I doubt anyone could find his operation to be in conflict with Proverbs 6:16 et sequence.
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Old 05-26-2009, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Jersey
2,164 posts, read 3,236,759 times
Reputation: 1686
As long as their are people that will fill the pews and empty their purses/wallets for these type of charlatans...
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Old 05-26-2009, 01:06 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,755,932 times
Reputation: 2524
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
How does anybody justify an income of a million dollars a year. In order to rise to such an income how many of the Seven Deadly Sins must be regularly committed:

pride, covetousness, lust, anger, gluttony, envy, and sloth.

How many of these must be violated?

In the Book of Proverbs, it is stated that the Lord specifically regards "six things the Lord hateth, and the seventh His soul detesteth." namely:

* haughty eyes
* A lying tongue
* Hands that shed innocent blood
* A heart that devises wicked plots
* Feet that are swift to run into mischief
* A deceitful witness that uttereth lies
* him that soweth discord among brethren

Do you think you can go up the ladder to a million dollar salary without doing those things?
So it is OK to judge someone due to his salary by making assumptions that he or she must do those things because he earns that much money?

It is not possible in your eyes someone "can go up to a million dollar salary without doing those things"?

From a legal standpoint it seems you already judge him guilty of such sins with no proof. Is that type of judgement much divine?

You have a great day.
El Amigo
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Old 05-26-2009, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,556,197 times
Reputation: 35864
All sorts of things are possible, including a camel getting through of the eye of a needle. In my eyes, those I have known who achieved their millionaire status, did an awful lot of stepping on people to get there. Or else simply inherited the machinery or the inventory, which is hardly a valid way of judging whether they deserve it or not.
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