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Old 10-06-2009, 05:48 PM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 3,636,863 times
Reputation: 591

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
Wow, another well thought-out confession.

The overwhelming majority of churches operate on a tiny budget. Unfortunately, you're not understanding that hasn't kept you from exposing your hateful little bigotry.
Really exactly how much does a church cost?
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Old 10-06-2009, 06:16 PM
 
1,310 posts, read 2,639,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
Most churches are just that, money making machines.
Not true. Most churches struggle to make ends meet , the Pastor makes a modest salary and so do the other Staff Members. Many Churches and para-Church Ministries are enrolled with ECFA which is a seperate national financial accountability entity .

Can the religious American Atheist Association (AAA) make a simular testimony ? Afterall, it too is a proslytizing entity with an agenda, has regular meetings where dues are collected, holds annual national Conferences to ralley the Troops and plan strategys, employs full time Staff, distributes sales phamplets , and claims to be real science when it is only psuedo science . It has a Mission statement just like Churches do.
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Old 10-06-2009, 06:47 PM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 3,636,863 times
Reputation: 591
Quote:
Originally Posted by RVlover View Post
Not true. Most churches struggle to make ends meet , the Pastor makes a modest salary and so do the other Staff Members. Many Churches and para-Church Ministries are enrolled with ECFA which is a seperate national financial accountability entity .

Can the religious American Atheist Association (AAA) make a simular testimony ? Afterall, it too is a proslytizing entity with an agenda, has regular meetings where dues are collected, holds annual national Conferences to ralley the Troops and plan strategys, employs full time Staff, distributes sales phamplets , and claims to be real science when it is only psuedo science . It has a Mission statement just like Churches do.
I don't know much about AAA, and where are you getting your information about churches struggling to make ends meat?

I'm basing my opinion on personal experience. I may be wrong, but I'm not going to accept claims like you have made base on no evidence. I also will understand if you don't accept my claims, because I have no evidence.
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:07 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,453,494 times
Reputation: 3868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
Really exactly how much does a church cost?
What kind of a question is that?
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Boise
2,008 posts, read 2,908,048 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Whips View Post
Just a question,not to get to controversial on the subject. Religion can cause heated conversation. Is it fair for a mega church to pay these salary? Would you attend a church that pays a million or two for salary?

I would like to think a preacher will preach God words out of the kindness of his heart,instead of a paycheck. If a preacher give most of his time to church,he should be compensated,but not that much. I think a normal salary is ok,no more than the average members salaries whom pays their tithes. Example, a pastor with a 1.5 million salary,but the people who attends the church live in stricken neighborhoods,which the church itself is located in a poor neighborhood.
All this shows me is that the church (not THE church, the church that makes enough to pay a couple million in salary) is out to make a buck and that's about it, they just slap a label of salvation on it to sell it. And the "sheep" for some reason buy right into it.

As far as it being a fair salary, I don't see any reason in the world that anyone deserves to make any more than a teacher, nurse, construction worker (and so on) especially when they don't do any more important of a job.
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:29 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,453,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleatis View Post
All this shows me is that the church is out to make a buck and that's about it, they just slap a label of salvation on it to sell it. And the "sheep" for some reason buy right into it.

As far as it being a fair salary, I don't see any reason in the world that anyone deserves to make any more than a teacher, nurse, construction worker (and so on) especially when they don't do any more important of a job.
Thank you for sharing your anti-religious bigotry with us.


Really though, what difference does it make to you if a synagogue pays their rabbi big bucks? Or what a church pays its priest or pastor? Or a mosque pays its imam? It's not your money.
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Old 10-06-2009, 09:17 PM
 
1,310 posts, read 2,639,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
I don't know much about AAA, and where are you getting your information about churches struggling to make ends meat?

I'm basing my opinion on personal experience. I may be wrong, but I'm not going to accept claims like you have made base on no evidence. I also will understand if you don't accept my claims, because I have no evidence.
I would estimate since the time I became a Christian in 1986 , that I have visited approx. 50 Churches of varying congregational size and out of those, it was apparent that they were either struggling financially or making ends meet without a huge surplus left over. This was evidenced by the meager surroundings, old carpetting, very worn pews , non lavish Organ/Piano , and the like. But regardless, these kinds of Churches are sold out for seeing people come to Christ for complete forgivness of sins so they dont have to enter a God-less eternity where they will feel severe regret for the decision to reject God all of their earthly life when they didnt have to. Further, I have personally been on Trustee Committees at Churches were I am privy to the financial condition of the particular Church and see the money that comes in and the many expenses that they incur to stay open.

Im afraid most Critics base what they see on TV with the smooth talking Televangelists trying to get the Viewer to donate money to thier Church...as typical of ALL Churches in America. That is not only inaccurate , but is disengenuous and a very presumptuous conclusion to arrive at.

I personally know a Pastor who has a 150 attendee Church that meets in an Elementary School for Worship on Sundays and Wednesday nights , and he works at the local Starbucks to supplement his Church salary so he can provide for himself and his family . This is a very typical situation with small to average size Churches. They particularly feel the pinch when the economy is bad as it is now, because the Congregation donates less during hard times.

More importantly, are you going to take a chance that there is no personal Creator to whom you will one day give an account for the way you lived your life , including keeping him out of your life ? I used to do that for many years ; but it is not a wise decision. It is far better to humbly come before God and surrender your life to him by asking for forgiveness for your sins , learning and growing in him, and having the assurance that it is safe for you to die at any time. I hope you will take this issue very seriously . Regards.
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Old 10-07-2009, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Portlandia "burbs"
10,236 posts, read 13,518,037 times
Reputation: 25856
I didn't think any clergy earned that kind of income with the exception of TV evangelism. (And as I see it, some of "those" are so obvious that anyone who sends them money deserves to lose it.)

Some churches, of course, are more supporting than others; however, living modestly, or in poverty, is supposed to be their vow, is it not?

Last edited by Bluesmama; 10-07-2009 at 01:57 PM..
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Old 10-07-2009, 04:01 PM
 
1,310 posts, read 2,639,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesbabe View Post
I didn't think any clergy earned that kind of income with the exception of TV evangelism. (And as I see it, some of "those" are so obvious that anyone who sends them money deserves to lose it.)

Some churches, of course, are more supporting than others; however, living modestly, or in poverty, is supposed to be their vow, is it not?
The Bible doesnt really say . BUT...it does say :' To whom much is given, much is expected of' . So, theres a big responsibility if God has blessed a CHurch financially --- its not to be used for the Church or its Leaders to live flamboyantly ; much money often leads a person astray into idolatry where you start crowding God out with material things and pleasures . Thats why the Bible says :' Its hard for a rich man to enter heaven' because money can totally get a person on the wrong track.

By the way, God does bless in ways other than financially too.

How about you...hows your relationship with God going ?
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Old 10-07-2009, 07:17 PM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 3,636,863 times
Reputation: 591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
What kind of a question is that?
ques·tion (kwschn)n.1. a. An expression of inquiry that invites or calls for a reply.
b. An interrogative sentence, phrase, or gesture.

2. A subject or point open to controversy; an issue.
3. A difficult matter; a problem: a question of ethics.
4. A point or subject under discussion or consideration.
5. a. A proposition brought up for consideration by an assembly.
b. The act of bringing a proposal to vote.

6. Uncertainty; doubt: There is no question about the validity of the enterprise.


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