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Old 05-28-2009, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,556,197 times
Reputation: 35864

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Platinum333 View Post
There is no "proof". It is simply my opinion that forcing someone to bring a drug-addicted and most likely disabled or defected baby into the world to two horrid people is cruel. I don't feel the baby deserves to suffer.
You also said i am sick if I think they ought to have the baby. Many babies are being born at this very hour, with less of a chance than the baby in the OP. Our society is wealthy enough and moral enough that we can find a way to deal with it, and improve the baby's chances, instead of whining about personal responsibility. See---I'm even sicker than you thought I was.
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Old 05-29-2009, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Texas
8,668 posts, read 19,917,306 times
Reputation: 21277
It isn't that pro-life people are not compassionate about the baby or what happens to it. It's just a matter of when we define "life" as beginning. No one doubts the fact that the couple in this theoretical scenario are in no position to be bringing a baby into the world, but those of us who are pro-life would say that while that's true, once the pregnancy has begun, it's too late to make those choices.

I doubt that many of you who would advocate for abortion in this issue, would advocate killing a six month old baby in order to "spare" it further trauma, but it is acceptable to you to do so sometime before birth. Why? Because in your view, it would be murder. It all goes back, again, to when a person sees "life" as beginning.

I would also add that it's a faulty assumption that everyone who has taken anytime of medication during early pregnancy is going to necessarily deliver a baby who has birth defects or problems. (I'm not referred to cocaine addiction here.)

I met a woman some years back who had her beautiful three year old boy with her. I don't recall if she had been in an accident or what (I think that was the deal) and she had taken a lot of medication and had multiple X-rays done before she knew she was pregnant. The first obstetrician she consulted advised an abortion due mainly to the radiation even more than the drugs, but she refused. He told her that based on when she had the X-rays her baby would be a "monster." She still refused, and found an obstetrician who would take her as a patient. She pointed to her perfectly normal, very physically beautiful little boy with her and said something like, "as you can see, he's hardly a "monster."

Now I know some of you say she should not have taken the risk. My point in sharing this is that often we assume things regarding pregnancy and outcomes that aren't necessarily the case. Of course, really, though, if you believe that life has already begun in the womb, (as I indeed do) it doesn't change things regardless, but it is interesting to note.
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:25 PM
 
341 posts, read 342,906 times
Reputation: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
You also said i am sick if I think they ought to have the baby. Many babies are being born at this very hour, with less of a chance than the baby in the OP. Our society is wealthy enough and moral enough that we can find a way to deal with it, and improve the baby's chances, instead of whining about personal responsibility. See---I'm even sicker than you thought I was.

Regardless if this baby can be taken care of or not (because I'm positive you won't be the one extending a helping hand) it does NOT deserve to suffer from the taritogens that it was exposed to in the womb due to a selfish mother.

If you think you are a saint for bringing a baby into this world who has severe disabilities and/or defects...think again.

Abortion is sad. YES, it *IS* ending a "potential life"...but in cases like this..it is definitely the most humane choice. However, it should never be taken lightly and used for anything but an extreme emergency.

Yes, it is sick if you feel that your personal beliefs are worth risking this baby's wellbeing and going ahead and having it...very sick. That's just my opinion and you don't have to agree.
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,556,197 times
Reputation: 35864
My "personal belief" is that people have an inalienable right to bring forth children if they desire to do so. You take the good with the bad when you stand up for fundamental principles. If you believe my principle is wrong, I'll listen to your argument about that, but don't clutter it with anecdotal what-ifs.
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Old 05-29-2009, 10:50 PM
 
341 posts, read 342,906 times
Reputation: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
My "personal belief" is that people have an inalienable right to bring forth children if they desire to do so. You take the good with the bad when you stand up for fundamental principles. If you believe my principle is wrong, I'll listen to your argument about that, but don't clutter it with anecdotal what-ifs.
Did you read the OP? This question is being asked based on a scenario.

If the couple chooses to have their baby..then that's their choice..there's nothing that any of us could do about it.

But if someone asks me if I think abortion is right for this case. My answer would be : Absolutely. YES.

In a typical pregnancy I generally would never support an abortion. However, I also wouldn't judge a woman for her own poor decision making...believe me...once they have an abortion for the wrong reasons...they are already paying for it by their own suffering.
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Old 05-30-2009, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,556,197 times
Reputation: 35864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Platinum333 View Post
Did you read the OP? .
Of course not, I never read the OP. Does anybody here ever actually read the OP?

I regard the OP as an "anecdotal what-if", which does not remove it from the fundamental principle.

My reply was about the fundamental principles that apply exactly in the case described in the OP. People who want children are entitled to have them. People who don't want children are entitled to not have them. If the parents ask for medical advice to guide them, they are free to accept or reject that advice.

It is not up to me or you to pass judgment on them, nor to influence their domestic choices. It IS up to me and you to foster a more perfect union in which people can safely make such choices with confidence that their baby will not be blown off by society to suffer the consequences of its parents' imperfect choice.

Did you disagree with me somehow?
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Old 06-10-2009, 09:23 PM
 
341 posts, read 342,906 times
Reputation: 113
You seem to do this on a lot of threads...ramble on about a whole bunch of nothing.
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Old 06-10-2009, 11:06 PM
 
Location: Oviedo, Fl formerly from the Philly Burbs!
1,012 posts, read 2,357,005 times
Reputation: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Platinum333 View Post
You seem to do this on a lot of threads...ramble on about a whole bunch of nothing.
Makes perfect sense to me? Did you read the post?

Also, for you to say

"I'm positive there will be complications, defects, and/or disabilities bestowed to this poor innocent life if the pregnancy is carried to term. "

is false on it's face. That is your OPINION...not a fact. There may be an indication that may be the case, but no one can KNOW THAT TO A FACT until the child is born. So, are you willing to bear that on your soul? I would not be.
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Old 06-11-2009, 09:52 AM
 
341 posts, read 342,906 times
Reputation: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrotrosie View Post
Makes perfect sense to me? Did you read the post?

Also, for you to say

"I'm positive there will be complications, defects, and/or disabilities bestowed to this poor innocent life if the pregnancy is carried to term. "

is false on it's face. That is your OPINION...not a fact. There may be an indication that may be the case, but no one can KNOW THAT TO A FACT until the child is born. So, are you willing to bear that on your soul? I would not be.

Makes perfect sense? He rambles on about it not being our position to judge this person...when he was the one judging in the first place. LOL

BTW, you didn't quote me directly, but I would DEFINITELY have it on my soul if I knew the odds were next to none for a baby being born healthy. They deserve a fair chance @ a GOOD quality of life...not one that they are subject to suffer from.
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Old 06-11-2009, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Oviedo, Fl formerly from the Philly Burbs!
1,012 posts, read 2,357,005 times
Reputation: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Platinum333 View Post
Makes perfect sense? He rambles on about it not being our position to judge this person...when he was the one judging in the first place. LOL

BTW, you didn't quote me directly, but I would DEFINITELY have it on my soul if I knew the odds were next to none for a baby being born healthy. They deserve a fair chance @ a GOOD quality of life...not one that they are subject to suffer from.
No, I didn't use the application to direct quote you , I used the Cut and Paste feature of my computer to do so, they are your exact words, so semantics there.

You are judging - and would kill the children referenced in the following article that states reasearch now shows that crack addicted children show NO MORE DAMAGE THAN THOSE BORN TO PARENTS OF SMOKERS. Lets kill all babies of smokers then, by your argument.

Crack Babies - The Epidemic That Wasn't - NYTimes.com

Small birth size argument? They catch up, according to studies.

IQ, about a 4 point variance...hardly worth mentioning.

Not advocating the use of drugs, I am only saying that NO ONE knows the outcome of a pregnancy, and the 'pre-emptive' strike we are discussing dismisses the high probability that the child will likely be normal and healthy , AND if adopted out, have a wonderful and productive life.
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