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Old 05-30-2009, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Nova Scotia
458 posts, read 1,136,391 times
Reputation: 444

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[quote=1Corinthians127;9009991]Lets take a look at Canada shall we? Canada has two official languages; English and French. I'm not 100% sure about this, but a majority of Canadians do not complain about it do they?/quote]

Well the thing is with the french in canada they expect us to all know how to talk and read french, in a lot of Provinces french is on all signs, both english and french, But when you hit Quebec there is no English on their signs, so to me they want all of us to know their language but they do not need to know ours.
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Old 05-30-2009, 08:39 PM
 
Location: California
143 posts, read 382,047 times
Reputation: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by stycotl View Post
thinking it is a fact does not make it so. i have no doubt that the usa ranks low as far as second languages are concerned. but that does not in and of itself make an argument, especially when failing to consider the reasons and implications.



i'd be willing to wager that it is the exact opposite. i would look at the fact that as was mentioned earlier, the smaller the country, the larger the chance that your immediate neighbors speak a different language. the larger the country, the larger the chance that you are dealing with the same tongues.



wrong. most linguists say that the 'hardest' language is the one that is least like your native tongue upon learning it. english would be terribly hard for someone from spain or china to learn. but it would be relatively easy for someone from germany to learn.

as far as which languages are technically more complicated, even spanish has a tougher conjugation system than english does.

you want to see a technically difficult language? if so, i'll refer you again to finnish. then i'll throw in mandarin and hungarian for free. they easily trump english in pure technicality. but again, it depends on where you are coming from.



great.



i had four years of french in school. wanna guess as to how fluent i am in the language? hint: i can remember how to say computer.



another great. the tests must not be too hard then, since there are a number of *citizens* that are still less than conversational in english.

either way, claiming that we should adopt spanish and english as paired official languages is like saying that the french should adopt german along with french as the official languages. in fact, they have even more reason according to your argument, because they are smaller, and are in contact with the germans and the german economy way more often than we are with mexico. as long as we're on that track, they should also adopt spanish, dutch, and romansh because they border switzerland, belgium, and spain as well as germany, and english because the uk is just across the channel, hungarian because it is heavily spoken in austria, which is just a stone's throw away, and while we're at it we will require them to learn arabic since they are immigrating in large numbers to the country.

comparitively, the usa has spanish (duh), french and cantonese (both in can-adia), and, what... creole (mostly carribean), that it would need to worry about on that level? and that is even by stretching the borders a few hundred miles.



unrelated.



exactly. this is my point to a tee.

the influence of languages is dictated by necissity, and trying to force it one way or another is bound not to work.

it won't matter if we regulate and federalize spanish–it won't change how many people are speaking the language. again, no one is going to that hasn't already decided to learn english is going to suddenly because of its duo status as official language along with spanish, and vice versa.

i think that languages are very important, and i like to learn them. i am fluent in one secondary language, spanish, and i have studied both french and italian; languages are great learning tools, and have social benefits as well. but that does not mean that we need to start swapping languages with our neighbors on an official level.

aaron out.
Not sure with which linguists you have spoken, but English isn't that difficult. I just asked the closest linguist around (my wife), and spent about three seconds googling it and discovered Korean and Hungarian are near the top in surveys of English speaking diplomats.

Not surprised at Hungarian, my brother was in Finland for awhile and learned to speak pretty good Finnish, I had a few Estonian friends and lived in Udmurtiya in Russia, and I've learned that those Finno-Ugric languages are extremely difficult. They are even more grammatically complex than Russian.

So, to those who claim that English is the most difficult second language to learn; sorry, but actual linguists disagree.
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Old 05-30-2009, 08:50 PM
 
Location: California
143 posts, read 382,047 times
Reputation: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by chango View Post
todos deben aprender a hablar por lo menos una otra idoma. Realmente no es tan deficil. No seas flojo.

El mundo is mas grande que los estados unidos y nuestra paiz es declinando. Es necessario a aprender lo mas posible acerca de la tierra afuera de tus fronteras si quieres vivir bien en la futura. Pero debe aprender mandarin chino en ves de espanol. Es un gran diversion a gritar a los imigrantes ilegales en el propio idoma de ellos, pero no vale mucho si queires quedar rico. :d
Нам пофигу что знаете язык гастербайтеров.
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Old 05-30-2009, 09:28 PM
 
341 posts, read 342,794 times
Reputation: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by annika08 View Post
I work at a hotel, and all of our housekeepers are Mexican. If you ask them to do something for you they'll play the "Me don't speaka no English" but if they don't like their room assignments they know how to throw a fit and call you an Evil American B**** (no joke-been called this and worse).

LOL. I believe you..I've seen this many times before.
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Old 05-30-2009, 09:31 PM
 
341 posts, read 342,794 times
Reputation: 113
I think we are all on the same boat on this one...and jtur88 is just floating wayyyyy out in the middle of no where on a raft.
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Old 05-30-2009, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,538,289 times
Reputation: 35864
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamman View Post

What is your argument anyway, that we SHOULD pass a bill declaring Spanish a co-official language with English?
I refer you to my succinct post #92:

There is a very simple solution, Mishigas. Don't make Spanish an official language. Just let people speak it if they want to.

Have I ever said anything different from that?

If you would read my posts, you wouldn't have to keep asking the same questions over and over again.

By the way, if your friend John Perry at Stanford was my prof as a freshman at Hoosgow Junior College and he came out with that baloney, I'd drop his course in a minute. He is basing his entire premise on the assumption that a ten year old living in Norilsk, Siberia, or Ushuaia, Argentina or Yellowknife, Canada, is already perfectly multilingual, because he speaks 100% of the languages spoken by 5-million people within a thousand miles of himself. His own completely arbitrary criteria designed for no other purpose than to make the big windbag's moronic argument. A personin Pago Pago, Samoa cannot learn any useful languages at all, since there is no language at all spoken by 5 million people within a thousand miles of him. What an absolute crock of crap. His essay reads like he sits and rambles at the breakfast table and somebody writes it down and puts it in his blog. If this dope is really a professor, tell him that some fratboys have hacked into his blog.

Last edited by jtur88; 05-30-2009 at 11:25 PM..
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Old 05-31-2009, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,057 posts, read 29,713,783 times
Reputation: 10450
I think people should be able to speak whatever language they want to. BUT... if this alienates them from society as a whole in any way, it's all on them. Nobody else should have to bend over backwards to accommodate them. English is the majority language in the United States, so everyone ought to be conversant in it. Any other language you want to speak, fine. But you can't start jumping up and down, yelling "discrimination" when things don't go your way.
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Old 05-31-2009, 12:56 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,306 posts, read 9,975,609 times
Reputation: 9077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belinda_Cooperstone1 View Post
Well the thing is with the french in canada they expect us to all know how to talk and read french, in a lot of Provinces french is on all signs, both english and french, But when you hit Quebec there is no English on their signs, so to me they want all of us to know their language but they do not need to know ours.
Isn't that the argument the 'English Only' crowd makes in the states? If you are in the US, you need to learn English. If we can agree upon that, why can't we agree that if you are in the French speaking area of Canada (and want to live and function within it), you should learn French.

I see many people who are gung-ho about English in the US... but are rather lackluster when it comes to making the exact same argument about French in Québec province. Why is that? The population there speaks French. Is that any different than the population in the US speaking English or the population in Mexico speaking Spanish?
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Old 05-31-2009, 12:59 PM
 
6,307 posts, read 7,131,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belinda_Cooperstone1 View Post

Well the thing is with the french in canada they expect us to all know how to talk and read french, in a lot of Provinces french is on all signs, both english and french, But when you hit Quebec there is no English on their signs, so to me they want all of us to know their language but they do not need to know ours.
And, this is the potential slope that the US can find itself running down, should we decide to make "official languages".

The history of having dual languages in "developed countries" surely demonstrates that there is a possibility of widespread ramifications.

"You don't like what we're doing? We're going to secede. Where will your country be without us?" *shivers*
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Old 05-31-2009, 01:04 PM
 
6,307 posts, read 7,131,258 times
Reputation: 8048
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Isn't that the argument the 'English Only' crowd makes in the states? If you are in the US, you need to learn English. If we can agree upon that, why can't we agree that if you are in the French speaking area of Canada (and want to live and function within it), you should learn French.

I see many people who are gung-ho about English in the US... but are rather lackluster when it comes to making the exact same argument about French in Québec province. Why is that? The population there speaks French. Is that any different than the population in the US speaking English or the population in Mexico speaking Spanish?
The point that is being made, I believe, is that the rest of the country must abide by "dual-language" regulations, but, for some reason, Quebec doesn't have to abide by the same rules.

If you have a dual language system, the playing field should be equal between everyone, no?
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