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Old 06-01-2009, 12:49 PM
 
8,649 posts, read 14,910,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
OK, I reread your post. I guess I was thrown off when you said Kansas and Oklahoma are just like Holland and Belgium, only bigger. Whether it is allowed in this forum or not, you do know the difference between a country and a US state, don't you?

Why shouldn't we make sure people are crossing legally? Because our entire nation is founded on the principle that people are presumed to be doing things legally until there is probable cause to believe they are not. Which is why Houston's family of cops has to have a warrant showing probable cause of criminality, before they can break down a door. What is your probable cause that I am illegal, if I drive to Canada for a weekend of sightseeing or shopping? As an American, I don't take it lightly when I am subjected to a presumption of guilt. Especially a presumption of guilt of terrorism.
"As an American, I don't take it lightly when I am subjected to a presumption of guilt."

There is no presumption of guilt in showing a passport, It's a proof of citizenship and nothing more.

And I'm sure you know that you cannot travel to europe with out your American passport.

Just think of Canada as part of the Mother Land, you know King, Queen and all of that stuff, and you will be OK.
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Old 06-01-2009, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,804,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDTD View Post
You aint that important jtur88. I don't think that the police are coming to your house to check "whatever" anytime soon.
Suddenly, though, I become "that important" when I show up at the Canadian border.
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,804,168 times
Reputation: 35909
Quote:
Originally Posted by Houston3 View Post

There is no presumption of guilt in showing a passport, It's a proof of citizenship and nothing more..

If I declare myself to be an American citizen, that is all the proof they need unless they have probable cause for believing I am not. That is a system that has worked flawlessly without a single untoward incident for seven years, since the day the passport idea was first proposed. Why do we think, seven years after 9/11, it is suddenly, today, imperative that people have "proof of citizenship"?
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:10 PM
 
339 posts, read 628,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Suddenly, though, I become "that important" when I show up at the Canadian border.
You are just that important. Don't kid yourself. I can't figure you out though. If you read some things you write, you would think you were extremely important. The cops would just come kick your door in, you would be constantly harassed, etc. Now...you don't seem to think you aren't worth it? Which is it?

Last edited by JDTD; 06-01-2009 at 01:36 PM..
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,804,168 times
Reputation: 35909
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDTD View Post
You are just that important. Don't kid yourself. I can't figure you out though. If you read some things you write, you would think you were extremely important. The cops would just come kick your door in, you would be constantly harassed, etc. Now...you don't seem to think you aren't worth it? Which is it?
Whichever extreme you want it to be. There are no gray areas, are there?

By the way, I don't advocate what is good for me, which is not important. I advocate what is good for my country and my humanity, which is important. Sometimes that requires putting myself in the shoes of the general public and then thinking about the issue. If you were to read my posts perceptively and with thought, you would see that. Maybe you've noticed that I don't worry very much about my hard earned money being stolen and used to help people not as lucky or smart as myself. It's not about me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me..

I wouldn't care if it took me two hours to get across the border, when it used to take 15 minutes. I have a lot of time. But it bothers me that it takes everybody else that long, as well. I lived in Canada for ten years, and I have no idea how many times I've crossed the border and it never took more than 15 minutes. Last time I came back from Sault Ste. Marie, there were cars running out of gas while waiting on the bridge.

I always thought the whole purpose of enlightenment and advancing civilization was to make people's lives better, not worse.

Last edited by jtur88; 06-01-2009 at 02:07 PM..
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Old 06-01-2009, 02:04 PM
 
339 posts, read 628,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Whichever extreme you want it to be. There are no gray areas, are there?

By the way, I don't advocate what is good for me, which is not important. I advocate what is good for my country and my humanity, which is important.
I'm far from the extreme one in this conversation. I operate on common sense. You are the one who often spouts these scenarios of "factual things" of what you seem to know "would happen" if x happens. Your scenarios are often the extreme of the extreme. Gray is not being so paranoid as to think I rate government attention.

So...is the good of humanity and your country attempting to identify a wanted criminal or terrorist possibly sneaking in or fleeing from the country before they hurt others or is it the inconvenience of having your ID checked? Oh know...they are going to check my ID. That's extreme!
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Old 06-01-2009, 02:06 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,596,336 times
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there are folks that post on CDF that perceive any police activity as negative.
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Old 06-01-2009, 02:12 PM
 
339 posts, read 628,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
there are folks that post on CDF that perceive any police activity as negative.
Unless they need them of course.
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Old 06-01-2009, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,804,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDTD View Post

So...is the good of humanity and your country attempting to identify a wanted criminal or terrorist possibly sneaking in or fleeing from the country before they hurt others or is it the inconvenience of having your ID checked?!
They've been checking drivers licenses (not even enhanced ones) for the past seven years. Not a single terrorist has A) slipped in or B) got caught. Oh, wait, they caught one.

In exchange for that imaginary security, every American who crosses the border has to buy a $100 passport and wait in line for an hour or two.

Fleeing from the country before they hurt others? How can they hurt anybody in the country if they are fleeing? I see you are using the word "possibly" to defend your watertight argument, but if I say "possibly" kicking your door down, you shout it down as hypothetical hysteria. Yet, I can find a thousand incidents of police abuse in this country for every terrorist you can find who has "possibly" sneaked into the country, and if any have, they haven't done a bit of harm.

When will you people get over it? Terrorism is not a threat, and it never was. If the WTC had been built to code, and if corporate thugs had allowed the building to be evacuated instead of whipping workers back to their cubicles, casualties in the building would have been fewer than a deranged student killed with a gun at Virginia Tech. Maybe even fewer than national guardsment killed at Kent State "to stop possible terrorists on the campus".

Last edited by jtur88; 06-01-2009 at 02:29 PM..
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Old 06-01-2009, 02:24 PM
 
339 posts, read 628,453 times
Reputation: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
They've been checking drivers licenses (not even enhanced ones) for the past seven years. Not a single terrorist has A) slipped in or B) got caught. Oh, wait, they caught one.

In exchange for that imaginary security, every American who crosses the border has to buy a $100 passport and wait in line for an hour or two.

Fleeing from the country before they hurt others? How can they hurt anybody in the country if they are fleeing? I see you are using the word "possibly" to defend your watertight argument, but if I say "possibly" kicking your door down, you shout it down as hypothetical hysteria. Yet, I can find a thousand incidents of police abuse in this country for every terrorist you can find who has "possibly" sneaked into the country, and if any have, they haven't done a bit of harm.
What are you talking about? Criminals sneak into this country every, single day. There are hundreds of thousands if not millions here peddling dope, ripping off you and me through fraud, murdering people, etc. And...it's all because border protection has been so lax. There are over a thousand homicide warrants in LA County alone for illegals last I heard, and that's just the ones they know about. To even rate a warrant, they have to know who you are. I have had two friends murdered by illegals who likely just wandered across the border back in the day everything was so lax. Both had been deported before too. Don't pick and choose what you want to pull apart. I said coming into or fleeing from. You chose fleeing from. ANd...btw...why should our criminals be allowed to flee to another country and hurt their citizens? How about we catch them and bring them to justice? It's a better tracking system. ANyone can get a driver's license (seriously). You don't have to be a citizen, so just showing your ID doesn't necessarily show where you are really from.
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