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in effect, by punishing and discriminating against the anglophones who have lived there as long as the francophones have.
Whether or not anglophones in Quebec have been "punished" and "discriminated against" is always a matter of debate (likely for another thread), but to set the record straight on one point: anglophones have not lived in Quebec for as long as francophones have.
There would be, were Spanish-speakers in California, New Mexico, Texas, and Arizona, denied free bilingual access to public services, and not supplied with Spanish-language state, local, and federal ballots, school curricula, translators in courtrooms and at social service offices, and mandated dual-language products, instructions, and warranties in nearly all categories of retail and wholesale goods. Fortunately, this is not the case.
If you are suggesting here that all of this stuff (public services, manuals for consumer products, ballots for voting, courtroom translators, etc.) is not available to English speakers in Quebec in their language, then this is completely false.
Much more of this stuff is available to anglophones in Quebec than is available to francophones in Canada’s other provinces, and what is offered to Quebec’s anglos certainly goes way beyond what Spanish speakers get in the U.S., even in areas where they are the majority.
Whether or not anglophones in Quebec have been "punished" and "discriminated against" is always a matter of debate (likely for another thread), but to set the record straight on one point: anglophones have not lived in Quebec for as long as francophones have.
Unless you are referring to isolated fur traders, the point is moot.
If you are suggesting here that all of this stuff (public services, manuals for consumer products, ballots for voting, courtroom translators, etc.) is not available to English speakers in Quebec in their language, then this is completely false.
What I am STATING (not suggesting) is that these services are availlable to Spanish speakers in the US. The situation in Quebec is not as well known to me.
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Much more of this stuff is available to anglophones in Quebec than is available to francophones in Canada’s other provinces, and what is offered to Quebec’s anglos certainly goes way beyond what Spanish speakers get in the U.S., even in areas where they are the majority.
I would venture to guess that the former is true because they are so few monolingual Francophones outside of Quebec proper, and that the latter is open to debate.
Perhaps, but I'd be willing to wager an additional cache of crullers that there are plenty of Francophones in Quebec who would like nothing more than to drive the wicked Anglos out completely, and who feel that the current level of discrimination that exists in La Belle Province agasint Anglophones is not draconian enough for their taste.
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My apologies if this is not what you were implying Yeledaf , but I’ve heard this stuff too many times to let it slide.
I'm not sure exactly what stuff you're referring to, but there is nothing you have posted that requires an apology to me or anyone else. For myself, I am neither anti-francophone or anti-other. I'm just anti- ANY discrimination based on language and culture. I hasten to add that this mostly stems from the fact that my profession involves connecting people from different groups and encouraging them to find common ground, all the while celebrating difference rather than using it as a means to discriminate.
That we'd have to go back pretty far in history to differentiate meaningfully between the two cultures' arrival in the New World.
Well, I’d say that for the populated areas of Quebec, certainly French settlers were there first almost everwhere. Anglo settlers only started appearing around the time of the American Revolution in the latter part of the the 18th century, more than 150 years after the first French settlements.
As for isolated fur traders, it is true that was an anglo fur trade presence in what is northern Quebec today as early as the late 1600s, but no settlements (either English or French) were established in that area. Even today, this huge area contains very few human settlements, and even fewer non-aboriginal human settlements.
In any event, I don’t consider the fact that the French settled Quebec quite some time before the English is justification for the anglo community not having any historic rights. Quebec’s anglos have a virtually complete community institutional network, some of which dates back a century or two, so certainly that is justification enough for the continued presence of these institutions.
What I am STATING (not suggesting) is that these services are availlable to Spanish speakers in the US. The situation in Quebec is not as well known to me.
Anglo-Quebecers are still today at the top or very close to the top of the socio-economic ladder in the province, whereas Hispanics in the U.S. are near the bottom in most places. There is simply no comparison between a group that was for a long time a "dominant minority" (though I would agree that this status has now largely been taken away from Quebec’s anglos, some of the benefits of their past dominant status still remain) and often desperate people who have immigrated to a richer country than their own for basic survival reasons.
As far as I know, there is no publicly-funded separate Spanish-language education system anywhere in the U.S. where you can go from kindergarten to PhD all in Spanish, is there? This exists in English in Quebec. As do publicly-funded English hospitals and other institutions.
Not saying there is anything wrong with this, but I just want things to be clear.
Perhaps, but I'd be willing to wager an additional cache of crullers that there are plenty of Francophones in Quebec who would like nothing more than to drive the wicked Anglos out completely, and who feel that the current level of discrimination that exists in La Belle Province agasint Anglophones is not draconian enough for their taste.
Yes there are, but methinks you are greatly overestimating their numbers.
The presence of Spanish speakers and their language in the all-powerful United States of America is today a much bigger public issue than the presence of English in the isolated, tiny French corner of North America that is little old Quebec.
I would venture to guess that the former is true because they are so few monolingual Francophones outside of Quebec proper, and that the latter is open to debate.
It is actually due to the fact that almost all of Canada's anglo majority provinces at some point had policies of assimilating their French-speaking populations by closing down their institutions (like schools, hospitals, colleges, etc.) or switching them over to English.
The tide started to turn somewhat in the 1970s and many French institutions were created, however in many parts of Canada it was too late to save the francophone communities. Most everyone was assimilated by that time.
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