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Old 06-02-2009, 10:47 AM
 
8,649 posts, read 14,872,641 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
There needs to be a balance of power in every organization/organism.

If a company or corporation has too much power - that is without accountability - the employees will be abused. In addition, said corporation will probably care very little for anything other than the the dividends paid to their shareholders.

On the other hand, a labor union that has too much power will simply destroy a company and will, in a weird kind of way, give even more power and control to a competing company that wasn't destroyed by a run-away union.
"If a company or corporation has too much power - that is without accountability - the employees will be abused."

Then why are the auto workers in the southern states not abused... And they seem to pretty happy with the companies they are working for..
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Old 06-02-2009, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Maryland
1,667 posts, read 8,152,605 times
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There are controversial sides to unions, like professional strikers and workers that can't be fired but, I drove a semi truck for years non-union. We'd sit for days without pay, get paid zip code to zip code instead of real miles, pay outrageous insurance premiums... I'll never drive non-union again. They may be harder on the boss, and some do abuse the perks, but there are a lot more workers who need a voice than bosses.
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Old 06-02-2009, 11:07 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,461,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Houston3 View Post
"If a company or corporation has too much power - that is without accountability - the employees will be abused."

Then why are the auto workers in the southern states not abused... And they seem to pretty happy with the companies they are working for..

I'm thinking more along the lines of Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle."
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Old 06-02-2009, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 49,557,510 times
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Soladarnosh! One World, one Union. Workers unite and get the pay and protection you have worked for.
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Old 06-02-2009, 11:20 AM
 
Location: NYC
471 posts, read 855,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ESFP View Post
There are controversial sides to unions, like professional strikers and workers that can't be fired but, I drove a semi truck for years non-union. We'd sit for days without pay, get paid zip code to zip code instead of real miles, pay outrageous insurance premiums... I'll never drive non-union again. They may be harder on the boss, and some do abuse the perks, but there are a lot more workers who need a voice than bosses.
Totally agree with you about the abuse that goes on 100%, before my mom got the job she has now she worked non-union jobs. She's a home health aide. She dealt with just about every bad scenario there is no health benefits, no sick days, no vacation, no paid overtime, they didn't pay her for weeks. I even had to threaten to sue them one time because they kept withholding pay without reasonable cause (kept saying they didn't have enough funds) or even worse they would give their employees checks and the checks would bounce! I see the need for Unions. No questions about it. I just think we should be able to regulate them somehow. If they are allowed to do whatever they want, SOME will abuse their power. (Not all Unions are bad, the one my mom belongs to is fabolous).

Last edited by gf1025; 06-02-2009 at 11:41 AM..
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Old 06-02-2009, 11:36 AM
 
44,590 posts, read 43,115,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Soladarnosh! One World, one Union. Workers unite and get the pay and protection you have worked for.
It is spelled Solidarnosc, but I can see where your coming from
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Old 06-02-2009, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
7,091 posts, read 10,488,886 times
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I personally think labor unions are not bad in themselves, workers should have protections from abusive practices, but often many go way too far in protecting the office livestock.

I think many unions have based too much on the seniority of employees and not enough of performance in my experience. I know it's a very serious issue at my current employer where usually the least productive people have the most seniority. With recent rounds of layoffs the younger and usually (certainly not always) harder working employees went first...once you get rid of the hard workers they are going to hate the company, while those non senior people still there will be busy updating their resumes to get out when they see how hard work is rewarded. Senior union members who do work hard, their morale dropped like a rock and are jumping ship as well before productivity goes in the toilet. I can't say it's 100%, but it is exactly what I see happening at my current employer.

Due to group negotiations union members also bargain for higher salaries and other compensation, which has really killed this companies ability to compete in the market and revenue as dropped (add in the mandatory cost of living increases no matter how the company is doing). As much as I would want to have better pay and benefits, if the strain kills the company (which is a big nail in the automakers coffin IMHO) I can't see how it would help anyone.

Need need to abolish unions, just balance in the contracts.
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Old 06-02-2009, 01:29 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,461,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subsound View Post
I personally think labor unions are not bad in themselves, workers should have protections from abusive practices, but often many go way too far in protecting the office livestock.
I think that is EXACTLY what the VAST MAJORITY of all people would say.

There are countless horror stories on both sides of the issue.

What is needed is BALANCE.
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Old 06-02-2009, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,057 posts, read 29,718,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
What is needed is BALANCE.
I wasn't sure how I wanted to respond to this thread until I read your posting. And thinking about it, you're right; there should be balance. In fact, if there had been, workers probably would never have seen the need to form unions in the first place.

This would seem to indicate that a move toward balance should begin on the management side. Now let's be honest: does anyone think this is going to happen? (I, personally, do not--although I'll be the first to declare that it would be a wonderful thing if it did).
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Old 06-02-2009, 03:10 PM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,321,196 times
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KLike everything else we dream up theres good & bad assocated with unions. I think the good outweighs the bad by a fair margin. Lacking unionization we would need socialism to have widespread fair work practices.
I'm a union sheetmetal worker for 7 years or so but think thats coming to a close due to the economy.
But even if I go nonunion I benefit because they set the bar for nonunion shops. Same in most trades. People associate all unionization with the biggies but thats not accurate.
In construction for the most part union & nonunion charge the same rates. The difference usually is that union employees get health care & a pension while nonunion guys get a paycheck thats might be about the same, until they go buy dental & medical ins & contribute to a pension. In reality theres often up to a 10 or $15/hr difference.
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