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Old 06-10-2009, 07:30 PM
 
7,673 posts, read 11,281,660 times
Reputation: 15249

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Quote:
Originally Posted by juggler View Post
Being a responsible parent and raising a bright, confident, friendly, well-adjusted child takes a lot of time and effort, and I admire people for accomplishing this.

Why should that same level of respect be given to someone who, otherwise equally accomplished, chose to go an arguably easier route and not have kids? Should I respect them because they took two trips to Europe last year instead?
I love the straw man scenarios all the parents on this thread keep propping up in order to be knocked down.

"all else being equal"

"otherwise equally accomplished"

etc., etc., etc.

Let me show you how ridiculous that argument is using your own criteria.

Two women each are "raising a bright, confident, friendly, well-adjusted child."

They both are wonderful wives and wonderful mothers.

They both do an equal amount of housekeeping and other chores.

They both volunteer in their spare time.

Everything about them is equal.

There is not one minute difference between them or their children.

Except.........

One is a stay-at-home mom and the other has a job outside of the home.

Do you respect the woman who has a job more than the SAHM because (using your words) the SAHM "chose to go an arguably easier route?"

Remember, the women are "otherwise equally accomplished."

So, using your argument, why should you give more respect to one over the other?

 
Old 06-10-2009, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Beaverland, OR
588 posts, read 2,493,076 times
Reputation: 457
Poor example, and here's why:

If the two women really are identical in every way, except one works outside the home, then yes, she deserves more respect. She does everything that the SAHM does, and more. Nothing against SAHMs (my wife is one), but the general rule is, more accomplishments, more respect. Nothing personal either. Can you think of a reason why this shouldn't be the case?
 
Old 06-10-2009, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Beaverland, OR
588 posts, read 2,493,076 times
Reputation: 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by ouijeewoman View Post
This statement really irks me Just because someone does not have kids does not mean they choose the easier route in life. That's a pretty generalized statement. Not having kids does not make life easier. And all childless couples are not vacationing all the time. We haven't had a vacation since 2004 I wish I was living this mythical life you speak of

Fair enough. Can you explain to me a situation where NOT having kids is clearly the harder route?
 
Old 06-10-2009, 09:31 PM
 
7,673 posts, read 11,281,660 times
Reputation: 15249
Quote:
Originally Posted by juggler View Post
If the two women really are identical in every way, except one works outside the home, then yes, she deserves more respect. She does everything that the SAHM does, and more. Nothing against SAHMs (my wife is one), but the general rule is, more accomplishments, more respect. Nothing personal either. Can you think of a reason why this shouldn't be the case?
Well, at least you're consistent.

So more accomplishments, more respect, huh?

Does that mean that a woman who raises two children is more worthy of your respect than a woman who raises only one? And a woman who raises three is more worthy than a woman who raises only two?

All things being equal, of course!

As for your question....

I'll let the SAHMs answer that one for you.

But I'd love to be a fly on the wall when you explain to your wife and the mother of your children that, yes, you do love her, but you have more respect for a woman who holds down a job in addition to doing everything that she does.
 
Old 06-10-2009, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Sandpoint, Idaho
2,880 posts, read 5,072,582 times
Reputation: 3020
To the OP,

I am glad for....

1) Adults making a clear-headed decision on kids.
2) Couples taking into account that kids will challenge and materially impact their lifestyles
3) Adults realizing life goes on or that there are alternatives.

If more parents did these things, perhaps the kids that we do have will be more loved and better taken care of, not only by parents but by the communities in which they live.

Final comment: some parents are not DINKS by choice, but by biology. My heart goes out to them and to the years of questions and stares they have to endure. Not fair.

S
Parent of 3
 
Old 06-11-2009, 02:55 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 40,273,555 times
Reputation: 10915
Quote:
Originally Posted by juggler View Post
Yeah, good luck with that arrogant philosophy, buddy. This is how people end up in prison.
In turn, I don't care what YOU do--as long as it doesn't affect me any. And odds are good that it won't.

Also, you'd be amazed at how much of the things I want to do are acceptable to society in general--without me really caring if they like it or not. You might also be amazed that I can provide my own direction at work, and I don't require micromanagers--someone looking over my shoulder all the time to make sure I'm doing my part to get the job done. In fact, I'm one of the best workers there, because I don't NEED to be told what to do. I see what needs to be done, and just DO it.
 
Old 06-11-2009, 03:00 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 40,273,555 times
Reputation: 10915
I think what we can establish is that some people don't want kids, some people want kids, and the neither should be in a relationship with the other.

The people withOUT kids are doing their part to keep the population down. There are actually some finite resources that suffer from overpopulation. Ever see the Star Trek episode where they were orbiting that planet where they cured all diseases and everyone lived a real long time? So they went to Kirk to find themselves a disease they weren't immune to, so they could actually "right-size" their population?
 
Old 06-11-2009, 03:04 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 40,273,555 times
Reputation: 10915
Quote:
Originally Posted by juggler View Post
Fair enough. Can you explain to me a situation where NOT having kids is clearly the harder route?
Oh, I'd say anytime you have to stay behind and work, while someone with a kid rushes off to take care of that kid...or calls in sick, because their KID is sick, and they have to stay home with them. Not only do you have your own work to do, you have to pull their weight too.
 
Old 06-11-2009, 03:12 AM
 
Location: Kenmore, WA
7,359 posts, read 6,216,841 times
Reputation: 10577
People can be thoughtless and insensitive. Love them, anyway. We're all trying to find our way and some just get lost in the trivial.

Choosing to have a child is a personal choice, assuming you're choosing. Many don't seem to give it much thought, unfortunately. We did give it a lot of thought and discussion. We've been together for 23 years, and my husband thanks God daily that we're childless. It's not that we don't like kids, we just knew that we wanted to enjoy adult lives without all the slurp and goo, emotional upheavals, and financial drains. It's worked for us.

Whatever you decide to do in your lives, I am certain it will be the right choice for you.
 
Old 06-11-2009, 09:18 AM
 
12,438 posts, read 13,091,627 times
Reputation: 8888
Quote:
Originally Posted by juggler View Post
Fair enough. Can you explain to me a situation where NOT having kids is clearly the harder route?
Quote:
Originally Posted by juggler View Post
Being a responsible parent and raising a bright, confident, friendly, well-adjusted child takes a lot of time and effort, and I admire people for accomplishing this. Why should that same level of respect be given to someone who chose to go an arguably easier route and not have kids? Should I respect them because they took two trips to Europe last year instead?
I have immense respect for people who choose not to have kids because to me it shows a level of conscious choice in doing something that there is a lot of pressure put on people to do. It takes courage to take a stand in the face of the criticism and bad-mouthing and judgment that is heaped upon them, when they choose not to have kids. It takes a level of self-awarenes, self-searching, self-development, maturity, and self-discipline to choose NOT to have kids.

Often times people put a whole lot more thought and consideration into NOT having children, than parents do into having children. Having kids is a huge decision and responsibility that many people don't think through before doing it. The people who choose NOT to have kids have put that level of thought into it. People who pop out babies often don't put that thought into it. So yes to me it is a major life decision deserving of great respect.

For some people it is wanting to not be "bad parents" and not do harm that they had done to them, or that they see done to others. For some people it is not wanting to add to a world that is overburdened with people already. For some people it is wanting peace in their own home for whatever reasons. Peace in the home = peace in the world. I have great respect for every one of those motivations.

It is always easier to do things to please others, to go along with the crowd, to succumb to peer pressure, to not draw attention to yourself, than it is to have the courage and conviction to take a stand and follow your beliefs, when all around you there is pressure and criticism from family, church, society, friends, culuture to not make your own choice for your own reasons.

As far as the whining about "trips to Europe" that is just plain old bitterness and resentment and sour grapes about a person's own jealousy about someone else's lifestyle, and most likely unhappiness about their own life situation, their own decisions, and maybe wishing they'd done things differently, perhaps taken that route themselves.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 06-11-2009 at 09:30 AM..
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