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Old 06-21-2009, 02:24 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
9,288 posts, read 16,147,998 times
Reputation: 11276

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
No they are not. They have not experienced parenthood.

It is perfectly ok to me that people choose to do this. I merely point out that parenthood is part of being a complete human.

giving birth is not necessary for being a parent......

and i'm sorry .... but that last comment is VERY insulting to those who have chosen, for whatever reason, to not procreate........ or who maybe CAN'T procreate.......

i'll bet i am every bit as "complete" as you are.........

 
Old 06-21-2009, 02:33 PM
 
Location: On a Slow-Sinking Granite Rock Up North
3,637 posts, read 5,267,635 times
Reputation: 2650
Quote:
Originally Posted by annika08 View Post
My husband and I do not want children-ever. We've always felt this way but made the firm decision when he came home from Iraq. We are the only married couple inside of our circle of friends without children.

When I told an acquaintance that we weren't having children, she gasped and said "Oh my God, that is so abnormal. Is there something wrong with you?"

Why is it so hard for some people to comprehend that in this day and age, there are people who don't want kids?

What are your opinions?
I think that I have far more respect for a couple who doesn't want children to NOT have them, than I do for a couple who has them because people have accused them of being abnormal. Nothing is worse for a child than to be in a family who didn't want kids in the first place IMHO.

Tell your acquaintance that you'll have them if he or she will raise them for you.

Seriously 'tho, stick to your guns and don't let others try to guilt-trip you into having them. That's wrong on so many levels IMO. I have children because I wanted them, and I can't imagine my life without them now. That doesn't mean that everyone should have them. They aren't little trophies to display.

To me, that's a deeply personal decision that should be nobody's business but your own.
 
Old 06-21-2009, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,116,537 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Just because they have a "sniffle" it doesn't mean that THEY are sick either. Symptoms are not diseases.

And work should be the priority, since it's the work you do that earns you the money to take care of any family you CHOOSE to have.

Wow.. what a miserable life you lead. My work is NOT who I am. Nor should it be how anyone defines or measures their life. It's only a means to live life, not the way to live life.

I really do feel sorry for you. You put so much into the "work" .. and the "work" could care less about you.. you are expendable at "work"... you are NOT expendable to your family and those people in your life.

That goes for people without children just as much as it goes for people with children..as people without children can have just as fulfilling of a life without kids as those with kids. However, someone that puts work before anything else , before people in their life, will end up lonely.. very lonely.

How sad for you.
 
Old 06-21-2009, 02:48 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,394 posts, read 10,003,997 times
Reputation: 9138
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc99 View Post
Right, there has to be some middle ground though. You have the other guy just above your post painting me as the harbinger of the "black death". These are the same people who can't wait to shove vacc's down your kids throat all in the name of public safety but when your kid has a reaction whatever it may be well then it's your problem. Your kid'll have autism or something else but he'll be safe from dengue fever or whatever other crap they want to fight against.
Tell me how many kids died of smallpox, were handicapped for life by polio, had heart conditions for life with scarlet fever, tuberculosis, etc, etc, etc before immunizations came along, compared to the number of children who have an adverse reaction to an immunization now? Look at the numbers. My grandparents used to talk about it quite frequently. People DIED regularly from this stuff. Even recently: 2 million died of smallpox in 1967. And how many die now from immunizations again?

Read this article Smallpox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and tell me whether you are doing your child any favors by not immunizing him/her. Look at the picture of the little girl who COULD have been immunized! Fatality rate is at least 30% and as high as 90% for certain types of smallpox. What's the death rate for the immunization? .0000... what percent? What's the rate for adverse reaction? .0000.... what percent??? Use your head!

Last edited by ChrisC; 06-21-2009 at 02:58 PM..
 
Old 06-21-2009, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,116,537 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc99 View Post
Right, there has to be some middle ground though. You have the other guy just above your post painting me as the harbinger of the "black death". These are the same people who can't wait to shove vacc's down your kids throat all in the name of public safety but when your kid has a reaction whatever it may be well then it's your problem. Your kid'll have autism or something else but he'll be safe from dengue fever or whatever other crap they want to fight against.

Ah.. one doesnt have anything to do with the other.

In other words, just because a parent might be wary of "sniffles" doesn't mean they shove meds or condone meds for their kids. I'm very opposed to any kind of antibiotic unless it is ABSOLUTELY necessary (ear infections ..it becomes neccesary.. colds.. not so much!).

I questioned wether to vaccinate my child and worried about it. I decided to do it for several reasons .. The first being that you could run into problems when registering your child for daycare/school camps etc. But more importantly I did it because in teh days of biological warfare, if my child was vaccinated against certain diseases he stood a chance. I did however request that the vacinations be done over time, not all at once. I was also told that they are no longer made with mercury, which was believed to be the reason for the negative side affects.

Look.. the bottom line is the Tkramar has no right whatsoever to roll his eyes at parents who have to stay home with their kid because their kid is sick. There is usually a good reason. Hey, he should be grateful. Once my son came home with a bad stomach virus (Im' talking projectile vomit type) that we unwittingly passed to my friend and her family and it was horrible (coming out both ends on the toilet .. it came on fast with no warning and caught my friends husband off guard at work). I can assure you that if a parent walked into an office carrying that virus TKramar might well find himself a victim of that virus.

He should be grateful that other parents aren't spreading the germs where he works..especially since he puts work at such a high value above anything else and seems to deem missing a day of work for illness as some sort of failure as a human being... based on his posts.
 
Old 06-21-2009, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,116,537 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Tell me how many kids died of smallpox, were handicapped for life by polio, had heart conditions for life with scarlet fever, tuberculosis, etc, etc, etc before immunizations came along, compared to the number of children who have an adverse reaction to an immunization now? Look at the numbers. My grandparents used to talk about it quite frequently. People DIED regularly from this stuff. How many die now from immunizations?

Read this article Smallpox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and tell me whether you are doing your child any favors by not immunizing him/her. Look at the picture of the little girl who COULD have been immunized! Fatality rate is at least 30% and as high as 90% for certain types of smallpox. What's the death rate for the immunization? .0000... what percent? What's the rate for adverse reaction? .0000.... what percent??? Use your head!
Great points. I weighed and carefully decided my choice (I vaccinated). Based on what I understood the benefits of vaccination outweighed the risks.
 
Old 06-21-2009, 03:12 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,394 posts, read 10,003,997 times
Reputation: 9138
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
Great points. I weighed and carefully decided my choice (I vaccinated). Based on what I understood the benefits of vaccination outweighed the risks.
Yes, by far. Absolutely.

Life is a risk. The idea is to minimize that risk. For some reason, people like to dwell on the few unfortunate cases of reactions to immunizations and totally ignore the tens of millions of people who have died from these various diseases. I don't follow that line of thinking. Your talking 90% death rates compared to a miniscule sub-hundredth of a percent death rates. Numbers are quite revealing if one just looks at them.
 
Old 06-21-2009, 03:39 PM
 
Location: On a Slow-Sinking Granite Rock Up North
3,637 posts, read 5,267,635 times
Reputation: 2650
[quote=TKramar;9372888]Really? Because I've been around sick people, and didn't get sick myself. Must have a strong constitution.
quote]


Not everyone may have as strong a constitution as you do. This is why the swine flu is mostly killing people with immunocompromised systems. You don't have to be in direct contact with people in order to pass any virus you're carrying. All they have to do is touch a doorknob, etc...that you just touched.

I never got the chicken pox either despite the fact I cared for at least 4 people who did (and was exposed to them during the incubation period) . I tested out as not being immune to it and was vaccinated. I had to because I work around sick people, and frankly, I didn't want to contract it myself. I also wouldn't want to expose someone whom it could kill as a "carrier".

Herein is my issue with working while sick. It's basic consideration for someone who may not have as strong an immune system as you do.

Does it cause other workers more work? Well, yes it does. But I'd rather work one double (and have done so on more than one occasion) than have a coworker come in sick and spread enough disease so that I'm working doubles 3 days in a row to cover 2 or 3 workers that are sick as a result.
 
Old 06-21-2009, 03:52 PM
 
2,015 posts, read 4,552,251 times
Reputation: 1861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violett View Post
Well, what can be guaranteed is that after your friends, siblings and own parents pass on, most people have no one left to care for them except their children.

I don't see it as a burden AT ALL. They took care of me for 51 years, and now I have a chance to give something back. At least, that's the way it's done/seen in my family.

That's how it is/was done in both of our families too. I'm glad that there are still people in the world that don't think that the whole world revolves around them. Life is about both receiving and giving. It's not all about "me, me, me, me, me".

To answer the original poster: truly, I do NOT give a rat's behind whether you have children or not nor is it anyone else's business. I can imagine you might feel a bit ostracized if all of your military buddies are having kids and you and your husband aren't. That's life, though. Everyone has the right to march to the drummer of their choice, but expect some sort of turmoil when you're not marching in lockstep with everyone else or you don't conform to societal norms. I don't think it's that uncommon for people to put off having children until later in life or not have them at all. I seriously don't know what the problem is.

In the end, every decision has it's own consequences as well. Either choice (to have or not to have children) will have its benefits as well as its drawbacks. You pick what is right for you. That might change down the road as both of you mature. Maybe it will stay the same.

My "beef" with SOME of the "child-free" is the downright militant and hostile attitude displayed by SOME. Give me a break. Am I to believe that those who want children are "breeding" while the "child-free" are having some sort of higher evolution, advanced form of sex??? The demeaning and nasty verbage/attitude of some "child-free" is really unwarranted. They want respect, but they give very little or none.

To the few of the "child-free" group that is so mental about it, thinking about it all day long, and wanting confirmation after confirmation affirming their choice, my suggestion is to get counseling because you definitely have unresolved issues from the past that are influencing your present and future.

Also, the idiot that posted that less intelligent people have multiple children - is full of it. I certainly hope that that particular poster doesn't "breed" so that the unadulterated ignorance isn't replicated. Thank goodness for small miracles.
 
Old 06-21-2009, 04:03 PM
 
420 posts, read 297,780 times
Reputation: 153
Actually, if you are poorer or less intelligent, they do have more children.
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