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Old 06-19-2009, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Oviedo, Fl formerly from the Philly Burbs!
1,012 posts, read 2,358,766 times
Reputation: 365

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Your so-called "lazy slugs" also think they deserve it, but according to your thinking , that does not immunize them from swirling down the sewer of indignity. The mere fact of "having no work to do" is, in your view, fatal. I proved you wrong.

SOME of the people who go into prison had already been stripped of their self esteem. ALL of the people coming out have been. If you think America can become a better place by minimizing the number of people who are stripped of their dignity, why are you such a staunch supporter of an exploding penal industry that systematically sets out to do nothing except strip record numbers of people of their dignity? And then release them iback nto an environment in which it is virtually impossible to gain back any self esteem. Their families have been estranged, their property has been forfeited, their job skills are refused by employers, What do you expect?

Where in my post did I indicate support of our penal system? I believe, in fact, that I criticized it. I also believe that , once they get there, they are already, in fact, hopeless, due to socio-economic environments they come from.
Are you saying, these were hard working, proud persons, who accidentally committed crimes, went to jail, got stripped of their dignity, and therefore ended up on welfare? Is that your argument? It holds no water.

Yes, those lazy folks, think they deserve it....self loathing. It is 'owed' to them...for nothing. Your statement of 'having no work to do' is flawed. Many of them CAN and are ABLE to get work...perhaps not at all times, but there are many times this is true. But it's the saaaaammme people on welfare for years and years and years...regardless of the job market status.
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Old 06-19-2009, 08:41 AM
NCN
 
Location: NC/SC Border Patrol
21,136 posts, read 21,154,931 times
Reputation: 23168
It is because we do not teach "thou shalt not steal" anymore.

I am sorry for the loss of one ladies mother. She was killed when a thief running from the police crashed into her. Her assessment of the situation was that the police should not have been chasing him. She blamed her mothers death on the police. That kind of warped thinking seems to be taking over. The police were just doing their jobs, the thief is the one at fault for this crime. He is the one that did not stop and he is the one that crashed into her mother. The police should not be made victims for doing their jobs. She just might need their help some day.
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Old 06-19-2009, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,653,762 times
Reputation: 35885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrotrosie View Post
Where in my post did I indicate support of our penal system? I believe, in fact, that I criticized it..
I think you did both:

By the time they get to prison, they are career criminals. The law here is too lenient, and the jails too overcrowded, so should one actually get to jail and spend actual time there, it's too late anyway, for most.


This seems to me to be a very contradictory paragraph. The law is too lenient, yet offenders should not be sent to jail. Do you have some other remedy in mind?

Can you devise an economic system that is an ideal match for the personal life of every single citizen? What is to become of those outliers who are unable to flourish in theeconomy that suits the rest of us?

You say you are opposed to incarceration. What, then, does a civilized society do with those members who came out of the mold broken?
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Old 06-19-2009, 09:56 AM
 
179 posts, read 478,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big daryle View Post
It is partly because all of the rich pigs have taken everything, and so many have nothing. the rich pigs will be sorry when they meet their maker, though.
sorry. there won't be any meeting between you or anyone with any 'maker'. But i think there is some truth to your other point.
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Old 06-19-2009, 09:58 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,529,077 times
Reputation: 1573
Isn't the best way to measure a civilisation by looking at their prisons?

FYI what kind of civilisation does America have if you get severely penalized for having committed a small petty crime, yet the biggest criminals (those who caused the current economic crisis) stay free?
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Old 06-19-2009, 01:40 PM
 
709 posts, read 1,542,946 times
Reputation: 351
Quote:
How and why did America become a nation of thieves? Houses and cars are always locked. Theft protection and security systems are everywhere.
Yes in the rest of the world nobody locks their cars or house doors and nobody has security systems because crime only exists in the United States since the rest of the world is such a peaceful utopia.

By the way did you know that Brazil has the world's highest robbery rates, and that there are over 35,000 bulletproof cars in Brazil.
Brazil - Brazzil Mag - São Paulo, Brazil, Gets Honorable Mention as World's Robbery Capital (http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8718/54/ - broken link)
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Old 06-19-2009, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,653,762 times
Reputation: 35885
The OP is comparing the USA with the country it was before it became a nation of thieves, not with the sprawling barrios of third world urban hellholes. (Note the conspicuous use of the word "become" in the OP.)
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Old 06-19-2009, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Oviedo, Fl formerly from the Philly Burbs!
1,012 posts, read 2,358,766 times
Reputation: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I think you did both:

By the time they get to prison, they are career criminals. The law here is too lenient, and the jails too overcrowded, so should one actually get to jail and spend actual time there, it's too late anyway, for most.


This seems to me to be a very contradictory paragraph. The law is too lenient, yet offenders should not be sent to jail. Do you have some other remedy in mind?

Can you devise an economic system that is an ideal match for the personal life of every single citizen? What is to become of those outliers who are unable to flourish in theeconomy that suits the rest of us?

You say you are opposed to incarceration. What, then, does a civilized society do with those members who came out of the mold broken?
It may seem contradictory, it is not. What I mean is, our laws are lenient in many respects. You attempt to murder someone and get a slap on the wrist sentence, and then, because there is overcrowding in the jails, you don't then, actually GO to jail (more lenience).

But there are other instances in which I think petty crimes are too severely punished...you get caught with a marijuana cigarette, for the third time, and you get 8 years in jail...what the heck is that for??!!

I am, of course, NOT opposed to incarceration by any means. Career criminals should be in jail. Juvenile offenders, with petty infractions, should get some sort of rehabilitation, job training, second chance, etc. Alot of this type of work is done by faith based orgs. which the government does not like to help out, but lets face it...they are where the people are. If you have faith or not, if you agree with a particular faith or not, those churches and synagogues and mosques are at 'ground zero' so to speak of where these issues are and are best poised to help. Let's get some of them some funding if my tax dollars are going to go into welfare of some sort or another...after school care with tutoring and healthy snacks - sports, mentoring, counseling, big brother big sister type of programming, etc. Restore that self worth they are not getting at home.

What type of outliers are you referring to that cannot flourish in a captialist economy? I have asked this already....handicapped? elderly? mentally disabled? there are programs for all of these and I have no issues with that. Unwilling?....I have issue with that....
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Old 06-19-2009, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,653,762 times
Reputation: 35885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrotrosie View Post
What type of outliers are you referring to that cannot flourish in a captialist economy? I have asked this already....handicapped? elderly? mentally disabled? there are programs for all of these and I have no issues with that. Unwilling?....I have issue with that....
The same ones that cannot flourish in kindergarten. The same ones who cannot flourish in junior high. The same ones who cannot flourish in Cub Scouts. The same ones who cannot flourish in boot camp. The square pegs. You can make your society's holes any shape you want, but there will always be pegs of different shapes. When society encounters people who are not inherently ideally suited to neatly fit into the slots you have made for them, then society faces a very revealing moral test. Does your society find ways to accommodate them, or does your society devise methods to punish them or send them to gulags?
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Old 06-19-2009, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Nova Scotia
458 posts, read 1,137,782 times
Reputation: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
How and why did America become a nation of thieves? Houses and cars are always locked. Theft protection and security systems are everywhere. Nobody is taken at their word. Enhanced IDs. Twice as many police per capita as a couple of generations ago. One out of 50 adult males in jail, one out of 20 was or will be.

And this is "our way of life" our soldiers are fighting to defend? How did things go so horribly wrong?
umm your population grew, and as such their are more people, and more people means more thieves and more thieves mean less people trust. Not to mention the fact that is seems their is not one "culture" of belief. So you must learn to diversify.

At last hearing I did not know your soldiers we fighting for you to not have to lock your doors at night nor did I hear they were fighting for your word.
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