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Old 06-15-2009, 01:30 AM
 
Location: Boise
2,008 posts, read 2,911,986 times
Reputation: 729

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrotrosie View Post
I agree with you...our tax structure and oppressive regulation has driven manufacturing out of the country, why on earth do we subsidize our farmers to NOT grow food? and tons of other crazy tax and regulative schemes??? Our economy has grown into money grubbing credit and lenders...and we are reaping that 'benefit' currently.

You talk about the billionares in this country, and I don't really know the numbers on that but the TOP 1% TAXABLE INCOME IN THIS COUNTRY STARTS AT $388,806 (as of 2006, source The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data ). That is not a whole lotta cash IMHO. It's more thaN me...but it's certainly no millionaire. So, most jobs in the US are provided by folks like that...why would we want to tax that person to death? Let them provide jobs...they provide close to 90% of them.....No, he won't be building a dam...only a country.
I can agree that "taxing them to death" isn't going to be the answer. But for different reasons - I think it would be ineffective and counterproductive. But I have to say that I can't feel much sympathy for for someone that makes enough to be taxed millions of dollers per year. It takes 25 Average american families to make a million dollars. These people may provide jobs, but as of now? The flip side to this is that without the masses competing over the crumbs, these guys wouldn't be anything. So while the masses should be happy to have a job, these guys should be several times happier and more grateful that these masses are there to make all this money. While the masses may have enough, they are being used. there is of course the opportunity for advancement and any one of these workers could make bank, but... there is no way that this handful of powerful people is about to lend anyone else a hand to their level. Why would they? It would be less for them and they wouldn't be special anymore.

See, I'm not saying that billionaires hogging all the money is the problem - it's the symptom. It's still all a game of survival of the fittest, billionaires being the fittest in this case. It's the primal system of nature formulated into an economic system. And seeing as how we're more or less animals - it's kind of counterproductive to put all our possibility of the human mind back into a glorified state of nature. Billionaires and their money, paying us to keep busy... It's like the feudal system, we haven't gone anywhere, we just have newer toys, weapons and conveniences. But at least we have common ground thinking that taxation isn't going to be the answer.
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Old 06-15-2009, 05:59 AM
 
Location: Oviedo, Fl formerly from the Philly Burbs!
1,012 posts, read 2,359,357 times
Reputation: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by cleatis View Post
I can agree that "taxing them to death" isn't going to be the answer. But for different reasons - I think it would be ineffective and counterproductive. But I have to say that I can't feel much sympathy for for someone that makes enough to be taxed millions of dollers per year. It takes 25 Average american families to make a million dollars. These people may provide jobs, but as of now? The flip side to this is that without the masses competing over the crumbs, these guys wouldn't be anything. So while the masses should be happy to have a job, these guys should be several times happier and more grateful that these masses are there to make all this money. While the masses may have enough, they are being used. there is of course the opportunity for advancement and any one of these workers could make bank, but... there is no way that this handful of powerful people is about to lend anyone else a hand to their level. Why would they? It would be less for them and they wouldn't be special anymore.

See, I'm not saying that billionaires hogging all the money is the problem - it's the symptom. It's still all a game of survival of the fittest, billionaires being the fittest in this case. It's the primal system of nature formulated into an economic system. And seeing as how we're more or less animals - it's kind of counterproductive to put all our possibility of the human mind back into a glorified state of nature. Billionaires and their money, paying us to keep busy... It's like the feudal system, we haven't gone anywhere, we just have newer toys, weapons and conveniences. But at least we have common ground thinking that taxation isn't going to be the answer.
I think you may have missed my point a little...I was saying that billionaires (and even millionaires) make up very little of the folks that provide jobs in this country (with a few exceptions) The TOP 1% of earners in this country, that is the top 1% tax bracket BEGINS at 338 THOUSAND dollars. I am employed by one such person (actually he doesn't even make that much...I work for a dentist) Small businesses account for the MAJORITY of the workforce. See the grid at this website ADP Employment Report and go to the right and click on Annual Revision Historical Data (its a word doc) and you will see that companies with under 500 employees employ 90,000,000 people compared to over 500 employees providing jobs for 18,000,000 people as of May 09.

Of those jobs....48,000,000 are provided by employers with less than 50 employess, like my job is.

So, those are not fatcats. Those are 300k or 500k a year folks...lots of that money is funneled back into their company. And our tax structure (which we agree on ) is set up to basically screw the little guy and stifle growth where it starts.

Then, lets get to the Big corporations....the greedy, who stepped in to help the little guy fight them?? The big Unions...who indeed had their place and time...and now? They are just as big and greedy and hurtful to the employee and the corporation once was. They no longer represent the employee or fight for their rights if they are injured (I have seen this at work personally) they want their dues paid, they want you to go on strike (even in bad times), and they use strong arm tactics to get what they want (seen this also, personally) They are no better (most, not all of them) than the companies they promised to defend against and now they are also hurting our economy and the American worker. After taxes, insurance bennies, and Union dues...what is left for Joe the Worker to take home to his family?
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Old 06-15-2009, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Boise
2,008 posts, read 2,911,986 times
Reputation: 729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrotrosie View Post
I think you may have missed my point a little...I was saying that billionaires (and even millionaires) make up very little of the folks that provide jobs in this country (with a few exceptions) The TOP 1% of earners in this country, that is the top 1% tax bracket BEGINS at 338 THOUSAND dollars. I am employed by one such person (actually he doesn't even make that much...I work for a dentist) Small businesses account for the MAJORITY of the workforce. See the grid at this website ADP Employment Report and go to the right and click on Annual Revision Historical Data (its a word doc) and you will see that companies with under 500 employees employ 90,000,000 people compared to over 500 employees providing jobs for 18,000,000 people as of May 09.

Of those jobs....48,000,000 are provided by employers with less than 50 employess, like my job is.



So, those are not fatcats. Those are 300k or 500k a year folks...lots of that money is funneled back into their company. And our tax structure (which we agree on ) is set up to basically screw the little guy and stifle growth where it starts.

Then, lets get to the Big corporations....the greedy, who stepped in to help the little guy fight them?? The big Unions...who indeed had their place and time...and now? They are just as big and greedy and hurtful to the employee and the corporation once was. They no longer represent the employee or fight for their rights if they are injured (I have seen this at work personally) they want their dues paid, they want you to go on strike (even in bad times), and they use strong arm tactics to get what they want (seen this also, personally) They are no better (most, not all of them) than the companies they promised to defend against and now they are also hurting our economy and the American worker. After taxes, insurance bennies, and Union dues...what is left for Joe the Worker to take home to his family?
Sorry I misread, we're more on the same page than I thought

True about the unions... I agree that they once had their time. I think they got caught up in the money race just like those they fight against and likewise turned crooked from having some power. That's a sad thing too...
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Old 06-15-2009, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Norwood, MN
1,828 posts, read 3,283,468 times
Reputation: 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Worley View Post
^This message bought to you by the Manson Family.
You can disagree with me if you wish, but I firmly believe I am right.
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Old 06-15-2009, 11:15 AM
 
1,047 posts, read 2,047,609 times
Reputation: 412
I just haven't read the word 'pigs' used in that context since Ms Fromme tried to cook off a few rounds.

But that Charlie...dude can't handle his drugs. I mean, I respect the dune buggy driving aspect of his existence (man, it is IMPOSSIBLE not to smile at a dune buggy), but you can't go around using folks like pincushions, dig?
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Old 06-15-2009, 03:34 PM
 
1,310 posts, read 2,643,877 times
Reputation: 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
How many of the Ten Commandments have become the law in the USA? Two. Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal. Both were already the law of the land under British rule, and both are the law of the land in every single country on earth. North Korea, Iran, Myanmar, every country has exactly the same two commandments as law of the land. So it seems kind of silly to claim that our law against killing and stealing is inspired by the Founders' religious zeal.

Reply: The Founding Fathers were adamant believers in God, Jesus, Christianity, and the Bible : WallBuilders - Issues and Articles - The Founding Fathers on Jesus, Christianity and the Bible . They held high the 10 Commandments , but since their time, America has gradually become a land of moral apathy to elevate narcissism and hedonism . Time honored , absolute moral laws are no longer desired which lends credence to the original post. Since you choose dissent from the 10 Commandments , can you please offer up any other documented Source that has higher morals ., ethics, and values (assuming you think such things are of value for our society) ?


There have already been countless threads here on whether or not there is a God, and none of them have changed anybody's mind. I take it as another mild insult for you to insist that I am so vain that I have to "acknowledge there is a personal Theistic Creator" who cares a rats butt about me, in order to account for black holes billions of light years away. I am not that vain.
Reply: No amount of evidence is ever enough for those who already have thier minds madeup on the most important issue of all issues : God. Due to pride , arrogance, and willful suppression of the knowledge for a personal Theistic Creator ... many choose not to give any acknowledgement to God although they know , instrincially , that he is necessary for our personal Cosmos. Lastly, it is not encumbant upon others to try and convince someone that he exists , for, there is no such thing as 'an atheist' -- only those who want to (pretend) to hold to that position due to their apriori-philosophical bias and refusal to bend a knee toward God which would mean de-throning Self ; its not that people cant follow God and his designated plan for ones life ... its that they wont. Not only is 'atheism' a lifesty
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Old 06-15-2009, 03:37 PM
 
1,310 posts, read 2,643,877 times
Reputation: 581
(concluding)... Not only is 'atheism' a philosophy , it encompasses alot of psychology as well . Regards.
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Old 06-15-2009, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,687,173 times
Reputation: 35889
Quote:
Originally Posted by RVlover View Post
Reply: No amount of evidence is ever enough for those who already have thier minds madeup on the most important issue of all issues : God.

You are living proof of that. There are about 50 species of oceanic birds that never fly within sight of land except to nest. But you have made up your mind that Noah had to "save" them by sailing his ark from Turkey to the South Pacific, capturing a pair of each of them, and somehow imprisoning them on the boat. No amount of evidence like that is enough for those who made up their minds in Sunday school when they had the analytical and reasoning power of a 6-year-old.
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Old 06-15-2009, 06:20 PM
 
1,310 posts, read 2,643,877 times
Reputation: 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
You are living proof of that. There are about 50 species of oceanic birds that never fly within sight of land except to nest. But you have made up your mind that Noah had to "save" them by sailing his ark from Turkey to the South Pacific, capturing a pair of each of them, and somehow imprisoning them on the boat. No amount of evidence like that is enough for those who made up their minds in Sunday school when they had the analytical and reasoning power of a 6-year-old.
You err not knowing the account of Noahs Ark or the Bible ; Noah was commanded not to take 2 of everything...but 2 of every KIND of LAND animal into the Ark. He wouldnt have had to take birds, but most likely he did. If you ever decide to become an honest Skeptic whos willing to take a hard look at the evidence for a Theistic personal Creator (to whom you will one day give account), go to www.impactapologetics.com for the best selling book called : 'I Dont Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist.' I thought i was 'an atheist' for 10 adult years....but had to be honest with myself that it was all one big charade cause i just didnt want to acknowledge God due to the personal implications. Regards.
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Old 06-15-2009, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,687,173 times
Reputation: 35889
Before you respond again, please take the trouble to know what you are talking about.

Genesis-6:19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. 20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive.

It was not an option for Noah to take the birds or not:

Gen. 7:3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.

And you want me to acknowledge your proof of a God who somehow seems to have forgotten that he created albatrosses, shearwaters and petrels. But he won't forget me, no-sirree, because I am so vain that I must insist . . .no wait, it is God who is so vain that the will make me suffer an eternity of torment if I don't kiss his butt.

Last edited by jtur88; 06-15-2009 at 09:03 PM..
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