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Old 06-08-2009, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
38,729 posts, read 34,398,394 times
Reputation: 28427
Default Privacy

Do we have any? Should we have any? Did the Founders intend for us to have any?

We now have a "Privacy Act" in which the government, unsurprisingly, granted itself broad new powers to encroach on our privacy, they they did not have before. And, unsurprisingly, the government told the people that these are their new privacy rights. Rights that will protect them against everybody except the government.
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Old 06-08-2009, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Yootó
1,319 posts, read 2,195,479 times
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I hope we still have some privacy in our homes, but overall privacy has been diminished worldwide. That's not necessarily because the government desires to take your privacy away, but more likely modern technology has made the world as a whole a less private place.
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Old 06-08-2009, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Maryland
1,668 posts, read 5,124,099 times
Reputation: 1468
I feel secure, and that I have a private life. Look at the past, such as J. Edgar Hoover and Joseph McCarthy. Those witch-trials were over after Vietnam but, I agree that we should be careful not to revive those crazy government tactics.
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Old 06-08-2009, 06:18 PM
 
Location: In a house
5,227 posts, read 4,681,039 times
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I think its clear the founders meant for us to be secure in our private matters. At the time they mostly refered to papers & such but thats all they had. I think Washington or Franklin would not tolerate much of the intrusiveness off our current gov't.
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Old 06-08-2009, 06:28 PM
 
40,871 posts, read 42,001,653 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Do we have any? Should we have any? Did the Founders intend for us to have any?

We now have a "Privacy Act" in which the government, unsurprisingly, granted itself broad new powers to encroach on our privacy, they they did not have before. And, unsurprisingly, the government told the people that these are their new privacy rights. Rights that will protect them against everybody except the government.
Loking at times like WWII there was not much privacy either.I the 60's the FBI constntly had files on many citizens especailly during JFK presdiency. He often had Hoover check people out and have them follow hius girlfriends. the funny part was that hopver was keep tabs on JK;so he wouldn't be blackmialked or give secrets.
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
9,477 posts, read 6,473,576 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker View Post
I think its clear the founders meant for us to be secure in our private matters. At the time they mostly refered to papers & such but thats all they had. I think Washington or Franklin would not tolerate much of the intrusiveness off our current gov't.
Back then, people noticed who you hung aroround with like they do now, so if it was the suspected guy down the road they probably watched you closer. Thats human nature. Thats why people have phones they can talk to friends without the neighbors knowing, and blinds for the windows. But this was human nature and not *organized* activity by a government.

I'm sure these people would have been horrified at the idea of someone keeping records of what you spent, what you said in your letters (tagged words/phrases) especially applying to everyone, listening in on your home conversations, and tracking your every move. And Franklin and Washington and Jefferson would be too.

Its the whole nanny state equation which is being used for justification. We will keep you safe. You are a good person so you don't have to worry. We'll find the bad ones. But who defines good and bad? Who decides what makes up a hint you might be bad? Even if your "bad" when does it become the state's business to stop you?

If abuse can happen it will. Slippery slope anyone?
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Old 06-09-2009, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Wyoming
6,506 posts, read 8,070,781 times
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The U.S. military has been monitoring random private communications for at least 60 years, and I suspect much longer than that. It did no harm to the innocent in the beginning, and it does no harm today. If not for a stupid internal communications SNAFU, the interception (and deciphering) of a message from Japan to the Japanese Embassy in D.C. could have likely prevented the bombing of Peal Harbor in 1941. It would be hard to guess how many disasters have actually been circumvented thanks to electronic intelligence gathering, but I'd argue that over the years it's saved tens of thousands of American lives. I don't mind that I've sacrificed a little privacy for that.

Encrypted messages have been used by the military for ages. The Caesar cipher is a simple encryption technique named after Julius Caesar, who used it in communications with his generals. I'm sure our earliest leaders were not above intelligence gathering efforts and would have used whatever methods were available to them.
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Old 06-09-2009, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
38,729 posts, read 34,398,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WyoNewk View Post
The U.S. military has been monitoring random private communications for at least 60 years, and I suspect much longer than that. It did no harm to the innocent in the beginning, and it does no harm today. If not for a stupid internal communications SNAFU, the interception (and deciphering) of a message from Japan to the Japanese Embassy in D.C. could have likely prevented the bombing of Peal Harbor in 1941. It would be hard to guess how many disasters have actually been circumvented thanks to electronic intelligence gathering, but I'd argue that over the years it's saved tens of thousands of American lives. I don't mind that I've sacrificed a little privacy for that.

Encrypted messages have been used by the military for ages. The Caesar cipher is a simple encryption technique named after Julius Caesar, who used it in communications with his generals. I'm sure our earliest leaders were not above intelligence gathering efforts and would have used whatever methods were available to them.
Is that why our government and our military does not bother encrypting messages, and no documents are ever classified? because of the obvious advantage of everybody knowing what everybody else is doing?

Just think---if our plans to go to invade Vietnam and to carry out operations there had been intercepted and acted upon, it would have saved the lives of millions of Vietnamese and hundreds of thousands of US soldiers.

Constitutionally, our government functions with the advice and consent of the people. Yet, those people have no access to anything the government is doing, so how can we advise and consent? Even the congressman that I elected is powerless to read most classified documents. My Congressman has no clue what the annual budget of the NSA is, or even how many people work there. Yet, there are more records about me in the NSA building than there are in my house. I supposedly have doctor-patient confidentiality. Yet, in a fraction of a second, a US government lackey can tell you what Rx I'm taking.

Why are citizens not entitled to the same privacy in their personal affairs?
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