U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-09-2009, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 40,431,699 times
Reputation: 10917

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Nevertheless it is true that the USA was never given a "name", but called something by the founders do describe what they were founding. They could, for example,have declared the independence of "territory along the Atlantic lying between French and Spanish lands", which the OP probably wouldn't have countenanced at all. But the descriptive phase they used was concise enough that they did not feel compelled to give it a new one.

Canada, for example, was originally the name of one settlement, located at the site of the present Quebec City. Early explorers used the name to describe the entire region of that settlement, and it started getting put on maps accordingly,, progressively coving a wider and wider swath of terra incognito. "Canada" did not apply to the more than half of what it is now, until the 1870s..

Following that model, the USA could very well have been called Plymouth, or Massachusetts.

Can you imagine how this country would be torn apart if it was decided that it would have a new name. Think of one anyway, just for fun. See if anybody attacks it.
The Democratic Republic of Washington...or Hancock...or Jefferson.

Three names offered from the annals of history.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-09-2009, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,487,584 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
But it is dumb that the U.S. has no name.
It has a name.

United States of America

And, it is on a lot of Letterheads - Air Force One has the name on the side.

Currency even has the name.

So, your premise that the United States of America does not have a name is simply, and factually, incorrect.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2009, 02:42 PM
 
Location: NYC
471 posts, read 858,617 times
Reputation: 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
And we're Estados Unidos (EEUU)...don't ask why they abbreviate it that way, I have NO clue.
I asked myself the same question ALL the time!
I think is because you also have the European Union? EU or EU sounds more like Europe (Europa)? Don't know why, just speculating here!
Weird way of abbreviating it though.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2009, 02:43 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,111,661 times
Reputation: 2244
it is the USA. or the US. thats its name.

and america is a continent. one whole continent. tip to tip. some consider it two.

i think its one big one.

and the US is abbr. EEUU, because it is plural. if it were estado unido (united state), it would be EU. since it is the united stateS, it is EEUU.

i dont like when people use "americans" to refer to US citizens. americans are people form america. which is a continent. or two.

i prefer US north americans.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2009, 03:29 PM
 
Location: NYC
471 posts, read 858,617 times
Reputation: 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
and the US is abbr. EEUU, because it is plural. if it were estado unido (united state), it would be EU. since it is the united stateS, it is EEUU.
Thanks for explaining EEUU to us. :-)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2009, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Chicago- Lawrence and Kedzie/Maywood
2,242 posts, read 5,453,085 times
Reputation: 735
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Reasonable. What if Mexico had called themselves the Unites States of America, before we did. Which they would have been just as entitled to do. Then what would we have done? Just sit here and accuse Mexico of not having a name? Or of taking the one that we wanted? We could have attacked Mexico pre-emptively, to keep them from taking the name we wanted to use when we got independence..

In fact, there was a place called Mexico, established by the Spanish, including a Spanish town now known as Santa Fe, New Mexico, long before the pilgrims landed, so Plymouth Rock was in fact in the uninhabited outer reaches of Mexico, and we should have called ourselves the United States of Mexico, and then the country to the south of us would have had to use United States of America.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Though it's not routinely taught in modern socialist curriculum, American states were not provinces of a central government, whose major offices are located in Washington, District of Columbia.
The states (i.e. Virginia, Pennsylvania, etc) were sovereign, and independent nation - states, united, for mutual defense and common good. They had exclusive jurisdiction within their boundaries. The federal government's authority did not intrude without their permission.

To illustrate:

Articles of Confederation (1777)
Article I. The Stile of this confederacy shall be "The United States of America".

Article II. Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every Power, Jurisdiction and right, which is not by this confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled.
The 50 states united = United States of America
The Federal government = United States, in Congress assembled

The specific and limited delegations of authority to the United States, in Congress assembled did not make the federal government master of the states.

Art. 1, Sec. 8.:
... and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;

Please note, that the Federal government could not arbitrarily acquire any land within the sovereign boundaries of any state.

FEDERAL CORPORATIONS - The United States government is a foreign corporation with respect to a state.
- - - Volume 19, Corpus Juris Secundum XVIII. Foreign Corporations, Sections 883,884

The United States, in Congress assembled, is a foreign corporation, not a central government, with 50 subdivisions (states).

In contrast, the "states" of Mexico are not sovereign nor independent, nor have any political existence except as subdivisions of the central government of Mexico.

What may puzzle some folks, is the dichotomy between the sovereign people domiciled in a state, versus the state government officers who are bound by dual oath to submit to the superiority of the U.S. Constitution - a compact for specific performance.
"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in Court, on the ground of a breach of the [U.S.] Constitution. The Constitution, it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it. The States are the parties to it. And they may complain. ."
- - -Padelford, Fay & Co. vs. Mayor and Alderman, City of Savannah, 14 Ga. 438, 520 (1854) Supreme Court of Georgia
The "States" obligated to perform to the terms of the Constitution, are the state officers, not the private people of the state.

"Government is not Sovereignty. Government is the machinery or expedient for expressing the will of the sovereign power."
City of Bisbee v. Cochise County, 78 P. 2d 982, 986, 52 Ariz. 1

"People are supreme, not the state."
Waring v. the Mayor of Savannah, 60 GA at 93.

"The people of the state, as the successors of its former sovereign, are entitled to all the rights which formerly belonged to the king by his own prerogative."
Lansing v. Smith, (1829) 4 Wendell 9, (NY)

"At the Revolution, the sovereignty devolved on the people and they are truly the sovereigns of the country."
Chisholm v. Georgia, 2 Dall. 440, 463

REPUBLICAN (form of) GOVERNMENT. One in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people,... directly,.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary

The Republican Form of Government, promised in Art. 4, Sec.4, of the USCON, is unique among the nations of this planet. For only in the USA are the people sovereign over the servant government.

(But citizens, by definition, are subjects. Do not confuse the two.)
"... the term 'citizen,' in the United States, is analogous to the term "subject" in the common law; the change of phrase has resulted from the change in government. ... he who before was a "subject of the King" is now a citizen of the State."
State v. Manuel, 20 N.C. 144 (1838)
In international law, Americans with sovereign status are not required to bow nor kneel to any other monarch on this earth. For we are kings without subjects, monarchs of our domain. That is why it would be a great tragedy that the republican form be transformed into a socialist democracy, without private property rights. No other nation has adopted a republican form, and I doubt any other nation could so defeat the powers that rule them to this day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Nevertheless it is true that the USA was never given a "name", but called something by the founders do describe what they were founding. They could, for example,have declared the independence of "territory along the Atlantic lying between French and Spanish lands", which the OP probably wouldn't have countenanced at all. But the descriptive phase they used was concise enough that they did not feel compelled to give it a new one.

Canada, for example, was originally the name of one settlement, located at the site of the present Quebec City. Early explorers used the name to describe the entire region of that settlement, and it started getting put on maps accordingly,, progressively coving a wider and wider swath of terra incognito. "Canada" did not apply to the more than half of what it is now, until the 1870s..

Following that model, the USA could very well have been called Plymouth, or Massachusetts.

Can you imagine how this country would be torn apart if it was decided that it would have a new name. Think of one anyway, just for fun. See if anybody attacks it.

Thank you for replying seriously, and actually understanding what I said, unlike SOME PEOPLE WHO WHERE SAYING I WAS WRONG.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2009, 04:25 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,724 posts, read 10,113,989 times
Reputation: 9305
Well, letís see... we are in America (which includes north, south and central... and a few islands here and there), and within those continents (America) we are the United States. Since we are in the Americas, I sípose someone saw fit to name us the ĎUnited States of America.í Isnít that clever? There is your name...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2009, 05:29 PM
Status: "Let it snow" (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Near Manito
19,317 posts, read 20,267,811 times
Reputation: 13439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Mexico has states and they are united.
Isn't it also a united states?
Mexico is in America, so it's also United states of America.
No, Mexico's official name is the United States of Mexico (Estados Unidos Mexicanos).

"America" is the name of the idea of which the United States is the tangible iteration.

When people around the world say they are going to America they do not mean Mexico.

Of course, when they say "G*d d*mn America" they don't mean Mexico, either. But that's okay. We can take it. We're the grownups that everyone else wants to try to p*ss off.

E.g.: look at Kim Bad Hair in North Korea. The little monkey is shaking his itty-bitty nuke around like he's big and bad and ready to rumble. But everyone in the world knows we could turn him into curry powder with one F-16 off the Kitty Hawk.

But we don't. Cause we're America. The Yoo Ess Ay. And hey. We need Kim to stay alive. If they get lucky,his family can save up and leave the land where they eat dirt and sticks and do the goose-step and come on over here to start a grocery in east L.A. so that we have a place to stop in and pick up a cold six-pack on a Saturday night.

One nation, under the sun and the stars. Nobody else like the big A.

AMERICA. Land of the pilgrim's pride. Land of the Freedom Ride. From every mountain side, let Freedom RING.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2009, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,666 posts, read 71,960,908 times
Reputation: 35913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post

E.g.: look at Kim Bad Hair in North Korea. The little monkey is shaking his itty-bitty nuke around like he's big and bad and ready to rumble..
We have our own monkeys who, one after the other, take him seriously and blow another hundred billion or so "defending our freedom" and jockeying our carrier groups into position when he toots his horn. He's got us bent around his little finger. Axis of evil.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2009, 06:13 PM
Status: "Let it snow" (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Near Manito
19,317 posts, read 20,267,811 times
Reputation: 13439
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
We have our own monkeys who, one after the other, take him seriously and blow another hundred billion or so "defending our freedom" and jockeying our carrier groups into position when he toots his horn. He's got us bent around his little finger. Axis of evil.
Please do not refer to our President as a monkey.

And no one is juggling any carrier groups. It'll be a cruise missile up his rapidly shrinking anus. (Have you seen the Divine Child lately? Whatever he's got, it ends in "-oma").
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top