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Old 06-18-2009, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Connecticut
1,461 posts, read 4,099,817 times
Reputation: 1646

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4beanie View Post
How come you can be proud to be Asian
Hispanic
Black
Gay
But if you're proud to be white you are considered prejudice.
How come if your Asian,Black,Hispanic and you want your children to marry within their own race you are considered proud, but if you're white and want your child to marry another white you are considered prejudice?
Why would you think it isn't ok to be white? Hell if you want to be purple, who cares? People are just too quick sometimes to judge others by outward appearances.

I get so exasperated at times with questions like this because although I do know that prejudice exists it is not limited to white folks no more than it is to any other race. What it is LIMITED to are people with small minds who can't see beyond skin color. Prejudice is a LEARNED condition and starts when children are very small and comes from there families before them. If you put a child in a prejudiced environment then he learns how to be prejudiced. Unless that child is taught differently as he grows, the prejudiced gets passed on to his family and so on. It has to stop someplace and young people have to take that chance and be the ones who stop it.

I am 61 years old and grew up during some trying times in the late 50's and all through the 60's. I have seen horrible race issues, heard horrible racial slurs thrown around and have lived through cities being shut down due to racial riots..curfews, seen the Klan actually try to step out to speak in our town...didn't work too well and personally knew a member of the Klan who once discovered was not my friend for very long. It was all hatred based then and is hatred based now. I am just real thankful that in today's world there is not the severe degree of prejudice around that there was back then and that people have truly tried to be more tolerant. I also think that if anyone today who didn't live through those times could talk with someone who had, see what went on and feel the hatred and pain then maybe, just maybe what little prejudice is left will go away.

Look, prejudice is not limited to just color of skin. We tend to not be tolerant as a people to all kinds of human conditions...overweight people, skinny people, gay people, poor people, women in public office, men who stay home and take care of the kids....there are all kinds of things that "set people off" and what gives anyone the right to judge??

Bottom line, we all need to live together in this lifetime and try to care about each other and not be so concerned that the color of ones skin determines who they are as a person. No one ever, not ever has the right to judge without expecting that judgement to come right back at them therefore...some things like this issue are best left unsaid and dealt with in a more understanding way.

 
Old 06-18-2009, 08:41 AM
 
365 posts, read 1,023,931 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
Lol, I don't agree with "White Victimology" either. Nor do I make any pretenses that racism from whites nor anyone is somehow "Over" or that the legacy of history does not affect today.

But....I do think that when you look at demographic trends, whites are slowly disappearing as is. And that begs the question is this necessarily a good thing? There's a line between smashing the forces of white supremecy and plain trying to wipe away white culture itself. When Europe is no longer "European", what will we have lost from history and culture? And before someone says "Well, others will adopt it then", history does not bear that out.

Some could say that it really doesn't matter, but to a great degree, I think it would be a sad day anthropoligcally(sp).

(Note: Do Not mistake these comments as opposition to inter-racial relationships or immigration. Purley anthropoligcal musing only)




</Puts on Flame Suit>

No need for flame suit! You at least make rational and thoughtful posts!
The argument "Whites" are disappearing is IMO largely over played. There are definitely low birth rates within many "White" countries and the "White" demographic in North America, but I think it's premature to think they'll disappear!
From an anthropological view point, it would be sad, just the same as any group of people disappearing!
That being said, there are no laws against white men and women doing the horizontal mambo (or variations) and making more white babies. Some people have to stop navel gazing and get on with life!
As for European culture disappearing due to immigration - old argument. What many people don't see when they look at raw statistics are the stories behind them... Many immigrant are adopting Euro/Western culture, and in many cases adding to it with elements of their culture.
For argument sake, you can have some non-white people who are totally assimilated into "White/Euro" culture, yet are still not accepted as being part of it due to their skin colour. It is a common complaint I hear from some people who are always asked "where are you from?" or "you speak good ____".
 
Old 06-18-2009, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Highland, CA (formerly Newark, NJ)
6,183 posts, read 4,781,649 times
Reputation: 2150
I'm proud to be Irish!
 
Old 06-18-2009, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
1,668 posts, read 3,945,355 times
Reputation: 3011
I'm white & would never wear a white pride t-shirt. I'd get killed on the streets of Houston within an hour. LOL! But I can say I've seen non whites wearing slogans boasting pride about their race or culture. It doesn't work both ways.
 
Old 06-18-2009, 10:07 AM
 
2,681 posts, read 3,575,448 times
Reputation: 3088
Quote:
Originally Posted by west_end_don View Post
No need for flame suit! You at least make rational and thoughtful posts!
The argument "Whites" are disappearing is IMO largely over played. There are definitely low birth rates within many "White" countries and the "White" demographic in North America, but I think it's premature to think they'll disappear!
From an anthropological view point, it would be sad, just the same as any group of people disappearing!
That being said, there are no laws against white men and women doing the horizontal mambo (or variations) and making more white babies. Some people have to stop navel gazing and get on with life!
As for European culture disappearing due to immigration - old argument. What many people don't see when they look at raw statistics are the stories behind them... Many immigrant are adopting Euro/Western culture, and in many cases adding to it with elements of their culture.
For argument sake, you can have some non-white people who are totally assimilated into "White/Euro" culture, yet are still not accepted as being part of it due to their skin colour. It is a common complaint I hear from some people who are always asked "where are you from?" or "you speak good ____".
True, but only to a point. Yes, there are many non-whites who adopt and add to European culture and ideals, and to deny them an oppertunity to partake in it is bigoted and shortsighted. However, there are just as many who feel a sense of resentment of being immursed in a world drastically different than their own personal understanding and seek to try and alter their adoptive country into something like where they came from.

To be fair, some of this alienation is legitamite, since I can imagine it is very fustrating to uproot yourself from everything you know and plant yourself in a place that may or may not embrace the values and ideology you hold dear (ex: Muslims in the Netherlands being applied at the decadency). Every culture brings a set of values to the table, some of which are complementary and others which are contridictory. And the simple truth of the matter is that once Britian, France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, are no longer "British", "French", "German" et al, It won't be the same place. Will it be "worse" per se, as the racists insinuate? No. But it won't be "France" either. And to muse the consequences of such an evolution is something I feel deserves to be disscussed.

And that brings us back to this thread. Anytime such thought as those I expressed are voiced, the battlecry of "Racism" is instant and loud. How come no one admonishes the African tribes who show a brutality and ethic hatred rivaling the darkest hours of Nazism? Where is the moral outrage over the Indian Caste system? Why is colorism in Brazil given a free pass? Every society has it's triumphs and demons, yet, in both regards, I feel white westerners are held under a much more powerful microscope in terms of their achievements and their shames.

</Doubles up that Flame suit>

Last edited by Shizzles; 06-18-2009 at 11:00 AM..
 
Old 06-18-2009, 10:10 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,466,140 times
Reputation: 3869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
True, but only to a point. Yes, there are many non-whites who adopt and add to European culture and ideals, and to deny them an oppertunity to partake in it is bigoted and shortsighted. However, there are just as many who feel a sense of resentment of being immursed in a world drastically different than their own personal understanding and seek to try and alter their adoptive country into something like where they came from.

To be fair, some of this alienation is legitamite, since I can imagine it is very fustrating to uproot yourself from everything you know and plant yourself in a place that may or may not embrace the values and ideology you hold dear (ex: Muslims in the Netherlands being applied at the decadency). Every culture brings a set of values to the table, some of which are complementary and others which are contridictory. And the simple truth of the matter is that once Britian, France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, are no longer "British", "French", "German" et al, It won't be the same place. Will it be "worse" per se, as the racists insinuate? No. But it won't be "France" either. And to muse the consequences of such an evolution is something I feel deserves to be disscussed.

And that brings us back to this thread. Anytime such thought as those I expressed are voiced, the battlecry of "Racism" is instant and loud. How come no one admonishes the African tribes who show a brutality and ethic hatred rivaling the darkest hours of Nazism? Where is the moral outrage over the Indian Caste system? Why is colorism in Brazil given a free pass? Every society has it's triumphs and demons, yet, in both regards, I feel white weterners are held under a much more powerful microscope in terms of their achievements and their shames.

</Doubles up that Flame suit>
The answer to that is easy: In the last 20 years it has become popular, and politically correct, to blame everything on white heterosexual christian men.
 
Old 06-18-2009, 11:52 AM
 
365 posts, read 1,023,931 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
True, but only to a point. Yes, there are many non-whites who adopt and add to European culture and ideals, and to deny them an oppertunity to partake in it is bigoted and shortsighted. However, there are just as many who feel a sense of resentment of being immursed in a world drastically different than their own personal understanding and seek to try and alter their adoptive country into something like where they came from.

To be fair, some of this alienation is legitamite, since I can imagine it is very fustrating to uproot yourself from everything you know and plant yourself in a place that may or may not embrace the values and ideology you hold dear (ex: Muslims in the Netherlands being applied at the decadency). Every culture brings a set of values to the table, some of which are complementary and others which are contridictory. And the simple truth of the matter is that once Britian, France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, are no longer "British", "French", "German" et al, It won't be the same place. Will it be "worse" per se, as the racists insinuate? No. But it won't be "France" either. And to muse the consequences of such an evolution is something I feel deserves to be disscussed.

And that brings us back to this thread. Anytime such thought as those I expressed are voiced, the battlecry of "Racism" is instant and loud. How come no one admonishes the African tribes who show a brutality and ethic hatred rivaling the darkest hours of Nazism? Where is the moral outrage over the Indian Caste system? Why is colorism in Brazil given a free pass? Every society has it's triumphs and demons, yet, in both regards, I feel white westerners are held under a much more powerful microscope in terms of their achievements and their shames.

</Doubles up that Flame suit>

It really depends on how you articulate your points.
Typically, people try to raise the issues you mentioned above while foaming at the mouth and working themselves into fever pitch of indignation. With those people, their “agenda” is pretty apparent.
Conversely, there are people on the other side of the divide too lazy to debate and they throw the old racism card. Check and mate!
As for why there is more focus on white/western cultures transgressions? Probably because a) there is a general expectation for other countries/cultures to adapt to white/western standards, hence some resentment and added scrutiny and b) the fact that many of these other cultures/people were until recently colonies/2nd class citizens, thus dirty laundry that used to get swept under the rug can now finally be aired.
I.e. 400 years of slavery vs. "20 years" of hearing how bad slavery was.
I dunno. Small price to pay?

 
Old 06-18-2009, 01:41 PM
 
2,681 posts, read 3,575,448 times
Reputation: 3088
Quote:
Originally Posted by west_end_don View Post
It really depends on how you articulate your points.
Typically, people try to raise the issues you mentioned above while foaming at the mouth and working themselves into fever pitch of indignation. With those people, their “agenda” is pretty apparent.
Conversely, there are people on the other side of the divide too lazy to debate and they throw the old racism card. Check and mate!
As for why there is more focus on white/western cultures transgressions? Probably because a) there is a general expectation for other countries/cultures to adapt to white/western standards, hence some resentment and added scrutiny and b) the fact that many of these other cultures/people were until recently colonies/2nd class citizens, thus dirty laundry that used to get swept under the rug can now finally be aired.
I.e. 400 years of slavery vs. "20 years" of hearing how bad slavery was.
I dunno. Small price to pay?

If you're referring to the Rush Limbaugh/Glenn Beck set, then I can see where you're coming from. I just think that the whole conversation on history and "Who did what when" needs to be balanced. Certainly the historical record of western wrongs needs to be aired and discussed, but must also be discussed within the framework of humanity itself (Ie: dispelling such bull myths as "Only whites used slaves" or "only whites can be racist") and within context. If you use slavery as an example, admonshing the British and French empires w/o a eye towards slavery already (and currently) existant in Africa turns alot of whites off in terms of discussing it in the way it should be discussed. Compare and contrast the Japanese reluctance to even admit to the historical evidence of such atrocities like Rape of Naking or Bataan march during WWII to the deep national shame that has instilled itself in the German psyche as evidenced in the many rememberances to be found in Berlin, Auschwitz, etc. And yet, "Germany" is a white racist opressor nation and Japan is among the shining examples of "empowerment". Many other examples abound as well....
 
Old 06-18-2009, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,574,557 times
Reputation: 35869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Connecticut Pam View Post
People are just too quick sometimes to judge others by outward appearances.

What it is LIMITED to are people with small minds who can't see beyond skin color. Prejudice is a LEARNED condition and starts when children are very small and comes from there families before them..
Being white is not an "outward appearance", nor a skin color. It is a cultural set of behaviors. Being White is also a "learned condition". I grew up in a white household in a white community, and what I learned was to be white.
 
Old 06-18-2009, 02:52 PM
 
1,467 posts, read 1,881,597 times
Reputation: 22487
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Being white is not an "outward appearance", nor a skin color. It is a cultural set of behaviors. Being White is also a "learned condition". I grew up in a white household in a white community, and what I learned was to be white.
If this were true, then an African American can also be White. I mean, an African American can learn this set of cultural behaviors. And, technically, s/he could also grow up in a White household and in a White community. So, by your definition, this person would be White. Yet, we really know that "outward appearance" and "skin color" would suggest otherwise.
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