U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 06-09-2009, 11:38 PM
 
Location: The Midst of Insanity
3,225 posts, read 6,124,373 times
Reputation: 3209

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
We think white people are so beautiful because we airbrush the blemishes off so many of them on the covers of the magazines in the check-out line. Instead, look at the people pushing the carts and see what you think.
I really don't know what you mean by this. I'm speaking from personal experience and from people I've personally seen while being overseas (and I've been to alot of places), not those I've seen on magazines or in the check-out aisle.

Yeah, the people on magazines are not really 'real' after all the work has been done to them.

Oh, and as I said before...there are beautiful and ugly people from ALL cultures...

 
Old 06-10-2009, 03:57 AM
 
1,718 posts, read 1,990,733 times
Reputation: 613
The various races ARE different. The differences are not only in appearance. The differences include emotional, intellectual, temperment and much more. Ethnic groups differ as well. There is nothing wrong with being proud of one's race or ethnic group. The problems come with excessive pride, prejudice and discrimination.

- Reel
 
Old 06-10-2009, 04:43 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,036 posts, read 21,519,881 times
Reputation: 19858
I never got why anybody would be "proud" to be from whatever race anyway. The race you belong to is an accident of birth and has nothing with personal achivement so the pride aspect really does escape me.

I tend to find that people often confuse being proud with being comfortable and not apologetic about it. Which are two completely different things.

One implies a feeling of superiority towards those who do not share your ethnicity and one implies self assurance. Racial pride tends to lead IMO to jingoisitc, xenophobic, racist, nationalistic feelings , racial self assurance is a far more positive and "moving forward" attitude , to me anyway.

To be self assured about your race means not to feel inferior which is what we should all feel .

Regarding white pride it does not help that all the vocal white pride people tend to be racist bigots with prejudices the size of Texas...

I personally feel no pride in being white as it has nothing to do with me and I could have just as well been born Black or South-East Asian. I have always refused to see people in terms of colour, nations, sexuality etc... People are people, we are all individuals and trying to somehow make us fit into a neat little box seems not only pointless but intellectually churlish.

We should be proud of human achievements and human prowesses ( and often thoroughly ashamed too which many of us forget) and stop looking at colour as some kind of indicator.


Pride is divisive when what we need is to concentrate on the shared humanity which unites us all. I have never been a flag waver , never seen the point and it is the same with race.

If some of us concentrated on what we have in common rather than what seperates us we might have a slightly less hateful and warmongering world.

How can you be proud of something which is beyond your control and has nothing to do with you ? I could see how someone is proud of their intellectual personal achivements but pride in the colour of your skin completely baffles me.

I hope one day we will be mature enough to let go of all those silly notions and all end up being mixed race sometimes. The dilution of racial distinctions might help us move forward to a slightly less childish attitude towards colour and we might actually start seeing people for who they are rather than the pigmentation of thei epidermis.

At the end of the day we all belong to the same species .
 
Old 06-10-2009, 05:05 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,036 posts, read 21,519,881 times
Reputation: 19858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reelist in Atlanta View Post
The various races ARE different. The differences are not only in appearance. The differences include emotional, intellectual, temperment and much more. Ethnic groups differ as well. There is nothing wrong with being proud of one's race or ethnic group. The problems come with excessive pride, prejudice and discrimination.

- Reel
Actually speaking as an Anthropologist I don't agree with you.

Emotional and temperamental differences are cultural and societal not racial ( and within that definition trends are always bucked within whatever race you study) , and intellectual differences are non existent as first our criterion are biased as being defined strictly by white and western standardised tests which means measurement of intelligence are invalid as defined by a very narrow definition of intellectual capacity.

Second it has been proven that someone pucked from a completely different cultural and racial background ( children and adults from various tribes around the world have taken part in many studies where they are brought to a level playing field with other races in terms of educational opportunities ) and achieve not only as well but often much better within an astonishing short period of time.

As a species we have all have the same levels of "intelligence" ( bar people with learning disabilities obviously ) , the difference in what we "achieve" ( which is hard to measure if you live in a jungle in Papua New Guinea or the Congo by westernised standards anyway ) is due to emotional development, educational opportunities ,societal expectations and many other factors .

From an Anthropological point of view what divides us is primarily cultural and societal.

There was recent study done recently where they took Black kids who were not only from deprived backgrounds but with a lot of emotional baggage and headed for juvenile detention or worse. They enrolled them in some of the best schools in Britain and to begin they were disruptive, often trouble-making and bottom of the class in everything.

Within a term they were catching up with the other kids and by the end of 3 years had either levelled or surpassed the kids from "good" homes and upper middle class background academically. The program was extremely strict and severe, the discipline really harsh and the learning curve very steep but those results were amazing proving that there is no difference in intellectual and mental capacity simply learnt behaviour and lack of opportunities.


In the West our definition of intellectual ability is far too narrow any all the tests are biased in favour of a certain type of comprehension, logic or understanding.

I know from field studies that there is far more which unites us than divides us.


I have been so lucky in meeting extraordinary people from many races and many tribes and have always found them to be just like me. Culturally we have little in common but as human beings we still found so many points of reference and can laugh at the same things, we cry , we get frustrated, jealous, angry, we love , we hate , we are petty and we can be brave , we are vain and modest and our capacity for emotional bonding and intellectual ability is the same.

Our genes do play a big part but what truly makes us human is our environment and cultural associations at the end of the day.

Last edited by Mooseketeer; 06-10-2009 at 05:59 AM..
 
Old 06-10-2009, 05:25 AM
 
1,091 posts, read 3,233,444 times
Reputation: 1039
Quote:
The various races ARE different. The differences are not only in appearance. The differences include emotional, intellectual, temperment and much more. Ethnic groups differ as well.
Absolutely could not disagree more.
A lot of factors contribute to one's personality, intelligence, and temperment... but the amount of melanin in one's skin is not a contributing factor.
 
Old 06-10-2009, 05:54 AM
 
Location: Sitting on a bar stool. Guinness in hand.
4,428 posts, read 5,492,904 times
Reputation: 1691
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
There's irish pride, Greek pride, Rssian pride, etc etc
Exactly.

Look there isn't a white pride thing out there because the white race (I believe.) It is broken into many subdivisions.

Look we have St. Patrick's Day which celebrates an Irish hero. Well actually it an excuse for drinking in the United States........but....whatever. This holiday is celebrated across bars, churches and streets across the country. Heck if I remember correct Chicago dyes it river green. But really the holiday is Irish in a historical lineage.

Also if you watch shows like the sopranos or seinfeld you get a view from particular subsets of white society as well. Not from an overall white society.

One last thing. Believe it or not up until I think fairly recently (My gen, generation X or perhaps slightly before this at the tail end of the boomers) there was plenty of racism between white races. In example my father who is Italian in decent married my mother who is Irish in decent. At there wedding there were segment of my mother family that would not show up for here wedding because she was marrying a (please for give me here but this is the word they used) guinea. This was in 1969.
Now from what I've noticed I do see alot more ethic mixing among all races. Heck my long term girlfriend is Jewish and as you already read above you can figure out I'm not. Our relationship is great and both families are Ok with us dating and eventually marrying. (Actually her grandparents are pushing for that ring.) Anyways it's good to see a change for the insular attitude my parents ran into back and 1969 to the openness my girlfriend and I enjoy today. Hopefully some day we won't sweat this kind of racial stuff. But I know it will be along time in coming. But one can hope.
 
Old 06-10-2009, 06:04 AM
 
365 posts, read 1,023,750 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by tallrick View Post
I guess it is not necessary because whites are the ones credited with much of the innovation, and modern technology. White people include the world's most physically attractive as well. Even other races improve their looks when mixed with whites. Being proud is so silly though. We all live and die- white or not we end up in the ground so who cares.
With an attitude like that who needs white pride!
Congrats! In case you didn't know it, you’re a closet bigot!
 
Old 06-10-2009, 06:09 AM
 
1,525 posts, read 3,294,246 times
Reputation: 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooseketeer View Post
Actually speaking as an Anthropologist I don't agree with you.

Emotional and temperamental differences are cultural and societal not racial ...

As a species we have all have the same levels of "intelligence" ( bar people with learning disabilities obviously ) , ...

Our genes do play a big part but what truly makes us human is our environment and cultural associations at the end of the day.

I tend to disagree here. This is the equivalent of saying we all have the same athletic ability... then saying "Our genes do play a big part"... then doing another about face and saying "it's all cultural again".

Seems you've really been tied in a knot by the PC science of the 60's or something.

Almost all human capabilities devolve down to genetics, and those abilities fall along spectrums.

The only real question is, "Are those differences clustered along lines that are anecdotally defined as race?".

As an example, let's suppose autism was more prevalent in whites. And folks when around saying, "Whites are retards". The question to ask then, would be... "Is one of the genes strongly associated with traits called 'white' somehow responsible for autism?"

Collies and Dobermans are both dogs... they aren't of the same temprament nor physical abilities. I don't think anyone would deny that the difference are genetic.

But when it comes to people we play this, "It's all cultural" game.

Somehow, I don't think that no matter how much african american culture I engage in, that I'd ever be able to go toe to toe with a 300 lbs. line backer, LOL! Or keep up with a Kenyan long distance runner.

I suspect psychological tendencies follow a similar sort of distribution.

Further... since culture comes from people, and people have genetic predispositions, it may be possible to argue that ultimately... culture is genetic. Or at the very least the culmination of the intersection of genetics and environment.
 
Old 06-10-2009, 06:10 AM
 
1,525 posts, read 3,294,246 times
Reputation: 730
To the OP...

"Why isn't it OK to be white?"

Because those that run the media are still very worried about a repeat of Nazi Germany and have embedded the white guilt message in a broad range of media.
 
Old 06-10-2009, 07:18 AM
 
7,674 posts, read 11,281,660 times
Reputation: 15249
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4beanie View Post
How come if your Asian,Black,Hispanic and you want your children to marry within their own race you are considered proud, but if you're white and want your child to marry another white you are considered prejudice?
How come (sic) it is always the barely literate Caucasians that raise this issue?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top