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Old 07-08-2009, 01:18 PM
 
8,649 posts, read 14,879,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
The people who "continue to buy new cars" are not the ones who will be attracted to the clunkers program. They are the ones who addictively buy new cars, and will keep on doing so until their job disappears.

No, the deal is not getting 3500 to 4500 better. I would be very surprised the dealer who was already offering $5,000 below sticker on a car will combine that offer with a clunker voucher. The buyer will have his choice---take the 5K discount on the original offier, of the clunker voucher. Not both. So the deal did not get better, it stayed the same.

People driving 15 year old cars do so for one of two reason. They are contended with a car that is not new and unwilling to pay an extre $15K to have a new one, or they cannot afford to buy a new one. Neither will find the clunker deal attractive. So the plan intends to entice two kinds of buyers. Those who want to pay for a new car, and those who are able pay for a new car. Drivers of clunkers do not fall into either of those two categories.
We just bought a new car about 2 weeks ago and the only dealers offering the kind of discounts you are talking about were Chrysler dealers. No other type of car dealers were offering those amounts off the sticker price.

I bought a 2009 and the car maker was offering $3000.00 off the sticker price and they also took my $3,000.00 state voucher for a total $6,000.00 off.


The term clunker is not really a term they should be using. The car must be driveable for the voucher.

What the dealer is offering off has nothing to do with the voucher...they just get the voucher money from the government.
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Old 07-08-2009, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Central Maine
4,641 posts, read 5,343,440 times
Reputation: 4782
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I googled /clunkers crusher/ and found nothing informative. Why don't you see if you can contribute something useful to the discussion by telling us what the law says.

What will ultimately happen to the clunkers will not change the defects in the plan. It's only an aside.
Or, so now it's only an aside? Why did you devote an entire post to something that, moments later, you declare to be "an aside"? Pathetic.

I've supplied several links, including one to the bill. If you're too lazy to look, or you simply do not know how to do research online, that's not my problem.

But I'll give you a hint. The official website for the program (and I linked to it in a previous message) has an FAQ section. (Do you know what FAQ means?) And one of the questions is: What happens to the vehicle I trade in? For homework, see if you can find the answer. Extra credit will be given if you can demonstrate that you understand the answer.
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Old 07-08-2009, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,603,351 times
Reputation: 35875
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenGene View Post
Ah! A predictive statement. Making a prediction. Very good.
.
I stated the three reasons I had as a basis for my prediction.

Where is the basis for your prediction that the plan will work. and how many people will use it, and what effect the plan will have on the personal finances of the participants?
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Old 07-08-2009, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Central Maine
4,641 posts, read 5,343,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Houston3 View Post
The term clunker is not really a term they should be using. The car must be driveable for the voucher.
Yeah, it was unfortunate that it was ever used, but "cash for clunkers" has a certain ring to it, and I guess they thought it was clever.

The actual, official name of the program is Car Allowance Rebate System ... yep, that's CARS. Yet another cutesy name. But it makes it easy to remember the URL for the program - cars.gov.
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Old 07-08-2009, 01:25 PM
 
8,649 posts, read 14,879,362 times
Reputation: 4563
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenGene View Post
Or, so now it's only an aside? Why did you devote an entire post to something that, moments later, you declare to be "an aside"? Pathetic.

I've supplied several links, including one to the bill. If you're too lazy to look, or you simply do not know how to do research online, that's not my problem.

But I'll give you a hint. The official website for the program (and I linked to it in a previous message) has an FAQ section. (Do you know what FAQ means?) And one of the questions is: What happens to the vehicle I trade in? For homework, see if you can find the answer. Extra credit will be given if you can demonstrate that you understand the answer.
""What happens to the vehicle I trade in?""


I know...I know...can I answer...LOL
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Old 07-08-2009, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,603,351 times
Reputation: 35875
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenGene View Post
Or, so now it's only an aside? Why did you devote an entire post to something that, moments later, you declare to be "an aside"? Pathetic.

I've supplied several links, including one to the bill. If you're too lazy to look, or you simply do not know how to do research online, that's not my problem.

But I'll give you a hint. The official website for the program (and I linked to it in a previous message) has an FAQ section. (Do you know what FAQ means?) And one of the questions is: What happens to the vehicle I trade in? For homework, see if you can find the answer. Extra credit will be given if you can demonstrate that you understand the answer.
If you have any more to add on this topic, please use the following forum:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/games-trivia-etc/

I think you'll find it a more appropriate venue for your fascinating contributions.
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Old 07-08-2009, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Central Maine
4,641 posts, read 5,343,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Where is the basis for your prediction that the plan will work. and how many people will use it, and what effect the plan will have on the personal finances of the participants?
My God, you can't read, can you? The closest I have come to predicting that the plan will work is this: "I have a feeling that it won't work as well as the Administration hopes it will." That was in post 40. I've never predicted how many people will use it - I said people would participate (hell, they have already started to participate). And I don't know - no one knows - what effect the plan will have on the personal finances of the participants, since no one knows [1] who the participants may be, and [2] what the personal financial situation of each participant is.
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Old 07-08-2009, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Central Maine
4,641 posts, read 5,343,440 times
Reputation: 4782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Houston3 View Post
""What happens to the vehicle I trade in?""


I know...I know...can I answer...LOL
I can see your hand waving from here!

Actually, what they're doing with the trade-ins sounds reasonable to me.
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Old 07-08-2009, 02:07 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,070,692 times
Reputation: 14878
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I stated the three reasons I had as a basis for my prediction.

Where is the basis for your prediction that the plan will work. and how many people will use it, and what effect the plan will have on the personal finances of the participants?
Three reasons, based upon nothing more than your conjecture and total ignorance of the program?

What is the criteria for the plan to work? I suspect in a nation that purchased over 7 million cars in 2006 (hell make it 5 million if you like), that providing an incentive to sell a measly 200,000 cars (1 billion divided by $4,000) isn't a particularly high threshold for success in a nation where median age of a car is 9.5 years old.
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Old 07-08-2009, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,603,351 times
Reputation: 35875
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenGene View Post
My God, you can't read, can you? The closest I have come to predicting that the plan will work is this: "I have a feeling that it won't work as well as the Administration hopes it will." That was in post 40. I've never predicted how many people will use it - I said people would participate (hell, they have already started to participate). And I don't know - no one knows - what effect the plan will have on the personal finances of the participants, since no one knows [1] who the participants may be, and [2] what the personal financial situation of each participant is.
I can't tell you and Ovcatto apart anymore, and have lost the patience to try, because neither of you have offered any input at all except to challenge what I said with a never-ending series of "prove it"s, which you now say you don't disagree with.

I said I believe the plan will not achieve the stated result, the stated result is not the goal of the administration in the first place, the plan will benefit the wrong people, and too few of them, and fails to reach people in many cases where the consumer and the environment and the economy can all be aided, and is a dangerous step in the direction of governmental control over consumer choices. I explained why I thought that. What are your reasons for thinking I am wrong? Saying "no one knows" is not an argument that I am wrong, and I would know better than to use it is an argument that I am right.
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