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Old 06-10-2009, 08:46 PM
Location: Sandpoint, Idaho
2,880 posts, read 5,075,808 times
Reputation: 3020


Miss California was stripped of her crown yesterday.

Background: In the final round of the Miss USA pageant, she opined about her beliefs in marriage and her thoughts on same-sex marriage in a rather benign and respectful manner. At that instant, not only did she not win the crown that "seemed" hers for the taking, but the same pageant machine that has supported her rise spun around 180* and began a pretty obvious, intense, and nasty campaign to discredit her.

From afar, it seemed to be a fascinating and chilling display of political correctness: attacked for her belief on marriage; called a sl*t for posing for semi-risque photos when 17 (usually adults are attacked for any involvement of semi-nudity of minors, not the minor herself); victimized by numerous insider leakages, e.g. breast implants, despite the financial support for such things from the pageant industry itself, and now stripped of her crown under the thinnest of pretenses.

At the same time, there is little doubt that the industry cannot run without huge support and inputs from the gay community.

And of course, there is the issue of the debate itself.


Is this the kind of freedom of speech & thought that can be expected in a world of gay rights?

Will the Miss California debacle energize the same sex marriage crusade or undermine it?

Will the Miss California debacle galvanize the opposition or will this incident be put into perspective?

Will the gay marriage issue be decided on moral principles, ethics, or simply on cash, the apparent choice of that great and spineless American, Donald Trump?

Did the screed of Perez Hilton offer a fair or extreme representation of the average GLBT position on the matter?

I seek your input to help me figure out a clear understanding of the greater implications of this particular incident. Note that I am interested in the impact of this incident on the strategies and tactics of both the affirming and opposing sides of the debate. I do not wish to use the thread to debate the morals and ethics of same sex marriage

Thanks, S.
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Old 06-10-2009, 09:41 PM
5,763 posts, read 13,333,334 times
Reputation: 4523
Frankly, I don't think this will have any effect in either direction on this issue in any large sense. It may get a few people stirred up for a short time, but then it will become old news as people continue with their everyday lives. This is the way it usually goes with situations like this.

There is one way that I could see that this could possibly have a major effect. This has to do with the sharply divided condition of our country at present. I don't know how all of that will play out, by I am concerned that something will have to give at some point, and this may lead to some serious upheaval. I suppose it's possilbe that this Miss Cal. situation could turn out to be the last straw for those fed up with political correctness (in general, not just on issues specifically related to homosexuality, though these are certainly part of it), which sparks the upheaval, but my feeling is that for now this country will continue living with the disgruntled, uneasy, at times antagonistic, polarization we've been living with for a number of years now, as we manage to continue going about our everyday lives. If I'm right, this situation will have no immediate impact, but will be just one more incident that adds to the gradual increase in pressure caused by the nation's social rift.
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:24 AM
Location: Chicago
6,005 posts, read 13,185,863 times
Reputation: 7956
she wasn't fired for her comment, she was apparently fired for not performing her Miss CA duties

after reading some of the emails that came out between her and the Miss CA director, she comes off as arrogant and selfish (putting it very nicely)

if it could be proven she was fired solely based on her comment, I'd start up a petition right now to get her reinstated. but it sounds like, at least from current reports, that she was participating in non-sanctioned events, which is against the rules

having said all that, I had no issues w/ her view (don't agree w/ it, but everyone is entitled to their opinion), I mainly had issues w/ her delivery. the whole thing w/ "in MY country" thing really ticked my off b/c she doesn't speak for the whole country and there are people in this country that disagree w/ her. she should have said something along the lines of "in my family" or, more appropriately, "in my opinion". w/ a regular person, such statement may be overlooked. but part of the Miss America pageant is to be well spoken and articulate, which she really wasn't (granted, not the worst answer to be given. that title, pun intended, goes to Miss Some Southern State from a while back for that weird jumbled answer about Americans and geography)

of course, such a ill stated answer is NO REASON for her to have been called all those nasty things by Perez Hilton. the guy may be gay, but, according to the gays I know, he is NOT the spokesperson for the gay community any more than Al Sharpton is the spokesperson for the black community. in fact, quite a few gays I know flat out hate him. the guy is rude, crude bully who went on a vitriolic campaign to mar this girl's reputation. don't agree w/ her statement, fine, move on, even if it affects you personally. no need to call her a b****.

Miss Prejean has apparently taken it upon herself to be the anti-gay marriage spokesperson, which is her right. however, she seems to be doing this while being Miss CA, which appears to be against her contract (again, going by reports). add that to the snotty attitude that came through in her emails and the previous scandal over the pictures (even though she was pardoned for that, it was a scandal, no matter how brief), and I can somewhat see why she was fired. I don't think it had anything to do w/ her views on gay marriage. hell, didn't Obama said he wasn't for gay marriage? there are plenty of people out there that are against gay marriage, but have voiced their opinion in a far better way than Miss CA

I don't think this will affect the movement either way. I would have to assume that there are far more intelligent, articulate, less scandal prone opponents of gay marriage than this girl, but if that movement wants to put her up on a pedestal and use her as the voice and face of their cause, they're welcomed to her. frankly, I think she is going to fade from the spotlight very soon and won't make any major waves one way or the other in the same sex marriage movement

my last comment on this is that it's sad and upsetting how people are celebrating that this girl got fired solely b/c of her comments. people are calling it karma and saying she had it coming. no, it's not karma to be fired solely for voicing your honest opinion, when directed to, in a fairly non-offense way (she didn't swear or use rude language). maybe her recent behavior may make people feel that she "had it coming", but other than the snotty emails that we're featured on some news site, she didn't appear to have done anything that warrants anon people gleefully cheering her loss of the crown. again, I don 't side w/ her on this issue and wasn't thrilled w/ her delivery, but I feel bad that the poor girl has been called all sorts of names by the same folks asking for tolerance and understanding.
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Old 06-27-2009, 10:17 PM
Location: Glendale Country Club
1,770 posts, read 2,505,449 times
Reputation: 2426
An abstract comment: I think it's a sign that it's time to think about how our thoughts, words, and deeds affect others. It seems like we have become so divided in the past 50 years...everyone seems to think they are 'right' and the other person is 'wrong'. Or that this belief is 'right' and that one is 'wrong'. It's an either/or....black-and-white...mindset. We need to come back to the middle just a bit. Some things are better left unsaid is my own personal motto for 2009. Be less concerned about what someone else is doing or not doing. Focus our attention on ourself...how can I be a better person? When I start thinking about changing someone else, I know I'm in big trouble. I can only change myself.

Last edited by 'M'; 06-27-2009 at 10:27 PM..
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Old 06-27-2009, 10:36 PM
491 posts, read 839,910 times
Reputation: 147
She got what she deserved.
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Old 06-28-2009, 11:21 AM
3,566 posts, read 4,493,151 times
Reputation: 1846
I just want to know, at what point in time did we actually start listening to anything that dribbled out of the mouth of a Miss Name-Your-State or Miss USA?

Like, never. She got her 15 minutes. If she is lucky, she might get another 15 minutes.
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Old 06-28-2009, 11:27 AM
6,745 posts, read 8,076,817 times
Reputation: 1846
Originally Posted by Pandamonium View Post
I just want to know, at what point in time did we actually start listening to anything that dribbled out of the mouth of a Miss Name-Your-State or Miss USA?

Like, never. She got her 15 minutes. If she is lucky, she might get another 15 minutes.
From day one I thought the same thing. Why is every body getting worked up over a beauty pageant contestant. Don't people usually make fun of them anyway?
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Old 06-28-2009, 12:26 PM
48,519 posts, read 81,076,846 times
Reputation: 17978
It has no impoact but i thnik the constrovesy showed that the gay movement does not allow for decenting opinion which hurt the movement.Everyone has a right to a opi9nion and they tried to silence hers;but failed. She did very well anyway on appearances.
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Old 06-28-2009, 04:44 PM
2,320 posts, read 5,871,807 times
Reputation: 997
Beauty contests used to be about beauty, whatever happened? Who cares what they think, how they talk, what talent they have or how they look in a evening gown? I sure don't.
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