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Old 06-12-2009, 12:22 AM
 
Location: Boise
2,008 posts, read 2,908,409 times
Reputation: 729

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Well, I'm all for guns. I'm not particularly 'into' them, but I support the right to have them. Great for hunting, home defense, etc... But, I don't think they are going to do all that much for you in a personal war. You ask what you should have when TSHTF? I'd say a cyanide tablet. I can't imagine the horror of a hundred million people with no food, power, water, etc. I think overall, people tend to be decent. But an empty stomach is a strong motivator. Truthfully, what do you think you, your AK-47, and 500 rounds of ammo are going to do when, say, 10,000 starving people are bent on getting the food in your compound? Sure, you'll take a few of them out. But it's only a matter of time before you run out of ammo, you run out of food, or one of 'them' is a better shot than you are.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Old 06-12-2009, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,222 posts, read 6,991,337 times
Reputation: 6603
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Well, I'm all for guns. I'm not particularly 'into' them, but I support the right to have them. Great for hunting, home defense, etc... But, I don't think they are going to do all that much for you in a personal war. You ask what you should have when TSHTF? I'd say a cyanide tablet. I can't imagine the horror of a hundred million people with no food, power, water, etc. I think overall, people tend to be decent. But an empty stomach is a strong motivator. Truthfully, what do you think you, your AK-47, and 500 rounds of ammo are going to do when, say, 10,000 starving people are bent on getting the food in your compound? Sure, you'll take a few of them out. But it's only a matter of time before you run out of ammo, you run out of food, or one of 'them' is a better shot than you are.
************************************************** ***
ChrisC,
In the scenario I outlined the setting was in the Germany of 1935 and you were a Jew.

In the United States of today a SHTF scenario would be totally different than the situation I described. Very few German citizens, other than Jews, Gypsys etc, died of starvation in Germany from 1935 to 1945.

Here in the USA we are so dependent on our transportation network and the electric grid that if either one was significantly disrupted people in densely populated areas would start missing meals in just a few days.

A current novel explores the WHAT IF situation of an EMP weapon taking out the United States. I believe the title of that book is ONE SECOND AFTER. I haven't read it yet but I plan on getting it from the library.

People commit suicide even when they have everything they need. In truly adverse conditions the suicide rates would probably increase drastically.

With a total collapse of our system here in North America our population would be drastically reduced within just a few weeks. The Darwinian concept of survival of the fittest would apply. Not all people with a firearm and 10,000 rounds of ammo would survive. However the chances of those people surviving are probably a lot better than those who are unarmed.

For a really scary scenario read REVELATIONS where in the "last days" in order to buy and sell you must have the "Mark of the Beast" stamped on your body. Whether you believe in the Bible or not I don't think it is a stretch of the imagination to envision a society where those conditions are possible.

GL2
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Old 06-12-2009, 09:06 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
13,341 posts, read 10,902,291 times
Reputation: 12285
I'm fortunate enough to live in an aea where it would be very easy to disappear into the scrub and not be found unless I want to be. My family and I could survive for quite a spell just on what the land has to offer. In this situation a .22 rifle or pistol would be highly desirable and would be more than adequate to keep the pot filled. The nice thing about the lil' 22 is that ammo aplenty can be taken along without taking up space needed for other needed items. Medical supplies, fire starting implements, and don't forget the spices. Salt, garlic, etc. You need them to preserve food. Fortunatly, the hills around here are loaded with salt. At this point I would be happy with a single shot 22 rifle. One shot one hit would be thus encouraged and not dwindle ammo supplies to fast.
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Old 06-12-2009, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,222 posts, read 6,991,337 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
I'm fortunate enough to live in an aea where it would be very easy to disappear into the scrub and not be found unless I want to be. My family and I could survive for quite a spell just on what the land has to offer. In this situation a .22 rifle or pistol would be highly desirable and would be more than adequate to keep the pot filled. The nice thing about the lil' 22 is that ammo aplenty can be taken along without taking up space needed for other needed items. Medical supplies, fire starting implements, and don't forget the spices. Salt, garlic, etc. You need them to preserve food. Fortunatly, the hills around here are loaded with salt. At this point I would be happy with a single shot 22 rifle. One shot one hit would be thus encouraged and not dwindle ammo supplies to fast.
************************************************** *
My little Stevens T-Bolt chambered for .22 shorts/longs/long rifles that I carried with me when I was a kid growing up on an isolated ranch put tons of meat on our table. I had mastered the art of placing four or five extra rounds in between my lips so I could reload almost as fast as most of the adults my Dad hunted with using pumps or bolts with magazines.
My favorite meat gun now is a Ruger M-77 .22LR with a 4x12 piece of glass on it. I prefer iron sights but my eyes are just getting to weak to use them anymore.

GL2
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Old 06-12-2009, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 40,266,772 times
Reputation: 10915
And...and further, you might have 10,000 rounds, but you also only have ONE gun. The German army against one person? You're going down.
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Old 06-12-2009, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,222 posts, read 6,991,337 times
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An Army against one, sure you will lose. However to see just what a handful of armed citizens can do against an Army read about the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto. It took several thousand German troops to kill those resistors and even then there were several survivors if I remember correctly.

GL2
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Old 06-12-2009, 07:42 PM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,319,821 times
Reputation: 2558
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
And...and further, you might have 10,000 rounds, but you also only have ONE gun. The German army against one person? You're going down.

In the case of the Jews they were going down anyway. I'd bet that there was more than one of them wished they could take a few with them.

But thats besides the point. You might be alone but I wont & most others who want to live wont either. Theres saftey as well as tactical advantages in numbers.
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Old 06-12-2009, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,179 posts, read 9,115,151 times
Reputation: 9523
To me, it's always been more about craft and skill as opposed to big armament. The tanks, the big AP rounds, all of that is intimidating - and is meant to be, to control the masses. However, I grew up on historical stories of the Swamp Fox, and that sort of guerrilla warfare, while not sustainable over time, can be effective. How did the Viet Cong battle? They were in their own element, their own home (never discount the home field advantage) ; they had grown up with swamps and massive trees and cover, and they had tunnels that went for MILES so that they could attack at will and then disappear. Guerrilla warfare affects the opposition mentally, physically, and emotionally, wears them out, causes them to make foolish and wrong choices and decisions. Non-bureaucratic - the type without the supercilious generals and majors looking for more stars or chickens*** on their collars no matter the cost - warfare, where everyone is fighting for something that they believe in or hold dear; their home, their way of life, what they feel is right, has a bigger impact on the opposition than many realize. The Jews in the Warsaw ghetto were pushed to their limits and acted rather than reacted. So one .22 with 10,000 rounds - a .22 is a pretty common weapon, and even some old ones can be found in garages that used to be dad's or the kids' first rifle - you might be able to scare up more weapons, even manufacture one from pieces of metal, etc - a "Saturday Night Special" of sorts. Even if you couldn't, even a small woman or a child can shoot a .22 - and a 24-hour continuous sniper action is not to be discounted. Not only that - but when some folks see others rebelling even moderately successfully, then they too are more inclined to defend themselves and what they believe in. "Did you hear what Herschel did? We could do it, too!"
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Old 06-12-2009, 07:52 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,538,289 times
Reputation: 35864
What would be weapon of choice for holding the Super WalMart against the Zombies?
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Old 06-12-2009, 07:56 PM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,319,821 times
Reputation: 2558
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
What would be weapon of choice for holding the Super WalMart against the Zombies?

Canned spinach!
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