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Old 08-22-2009, 04:02 PM
 
19,447 posts, read 13,195,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
Is Abortion Murder? If Abortion Was Illegal...
If laws were legislated to prohibit abortion, some (women) will continue to have abortions and some people will perform abortions.
If these people are caught, would do you think the punishment should be for
- the woman who has the abortion
- the person(s) performing the abortion.
What charges should be brought against them? Murder?
If the baby in the womb is eight months old, and the mother decides she no longer wants it, so some doctor kills it for her, then to me that is murder.

If a woman is raped and goes to the hospital to take some pill or procedure to ensure she will not become pregnant, then its not murder.
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Old 08-22-2009, 09:12 PM
 
226 posts, read 741,116 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
If the baby in the womb is eight months old, and the mother decides she no longer wants it, so some doctor kills it for her, then to me that is murder.

If a woman is raped and goes to the hospital to take some pill or procedure to ensure she will not become pregnant, then its not murder.
I agree because if she were raped she may not even be pregnant but if she took a morning after pill there would be no way to tell if she was pregnant anyway. Me being a pro lifer I still agree.
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Old 08-22-2009, 09:39 PM
 
4,529 posts, read 4,740,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
Is Abortion Murder? If Abortion Was Illegal...
If laws were legislated to prohibit abortion, some (women) will continue to have abortions and some people will perform abortions.
If these people are caught, would do you think the punishment should be for
- the woman who has the abortion
- the person(s) performing the abortion.
What charges should be brought against them? Murder?
The opinion on when the growing bundle of cells officially achieves "human status" is a matter for lengthy debate (read as arguments and insults) all by itself.

However, abortion is NOT murder in the United States, that all that matters at this point from a legal standpoint.

Also, abortions have been occuring since Human Beings first figured out which plants to eat to force a spontanious abortion. Indeed, some of the earliest noted medical procedures are found in ancient Greek medical texts as well.

Not to mention the chemical concoctions, often hazerdous to the women's health that were used, and are still used in some parts of the country today, that force a spontanious abortion. My Great Aunt STILL has a bottle of "medicine" no one is to touch sitting in her medicine cabinent at her home in the Andorandac Mountains.

As for the ongoing attempts to over turn Roe vs Wade, these are purely cases of control, with little to no thought given for the fetus that might be aborted.
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Old 08-22-2009, 09:42 PM
 
Location: Columbia, California
6,662 posts, read 25,352,291 times
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What is so funny to me. The one thing both pro-life and pro-choice agree on they ignore as well. That is pro-education!

Teach kids how to have sex responsibly, don't pretend your kids will not have sex if they are not taught sex ed.
My brother years ago came to me for condoms. Mother would find them and throw them away, guess she thought he would not have sex if he couldn't find a condom. He became a father at 15, guess hiding the rubbers worked!
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Old 08-22-2009, 09:48 PM
 
13,496 posts, read 13,981,177 times
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abortion is NOT murder. it will not ever be illegal in the US there should be no punishment for anyone who has or performs abortions. abortion is a woman's right and between her and her doctor no one else
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Old 08-22-2009, 10:10 PM
 
4,529 posts, read 4,740,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferretkona View Post
What is so funny to me. The one thing both pro-life and pro-choice agree on they ignore as well. That is pro-education!

Teach kids how to have sex responsibly, don't pretend your kids will not have sex if they are not taught sex ed.
My brother years ago came to me for condoms. Mother would find them and throw them away, guess she thought he would not have sex if he couldn't find a condom. He became a father at 15, guess hiding the rubbers worked!
Targeted education has not only helped lower the abortion numbers, but moved the main demographic from teens to career twenty-somethings. And I'm not speaking of Sex Ed.

I am also unaware of very many anti-choice people who are pro-education as well. They mostly come off as abstinence-only types.

Education is key, in this important matter and others. However, as I said, anti-choicers are after control, not eliminating abortion.
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Old 08-23-2009, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,122 posts, read 9,210,319 times
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From the Hippocratic oath:
I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.


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Old 08-23-2009, 10:23 AM
 
218 posts, read 680,846 times
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Assuming abortion were illegal then I think the punishment should fit the crime. If the fetus were capable of sustaining life outside the womb then I'd say it should be considered murder. Prior to that however, I don't believe murder (on any level) would be a fair classification since the fetus was incapable of sustaining life on its own. At that point, I suppose I'd lump it in with any other procedure for illegally removing an unnecessary body part (list from MD and list from blogger). I have no idea what the penalty is but I'm sure there is one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ferretkona View Post
What is so funny to me. The one thing both pro-life and pro-choice agree on they ignore as well. That is pro-education!

Teach kids how to have sex responsibly, don't pretend your kids will not have sex if they are not taught sex ed.
My brother years ago came to me for condoms. Mother would find them and throw them away, guess she thought he would not have sex if he couldn't find a condom. He became a father at 15, guess hiding the rubbers worked!
I have been saying this for years. In high school I would pass condoms out to friends before parties and dances. When I got to college, every party I had included a bowl of condoms sitting out on the table and I was known for slipping condoms under doors to closed rooms. A few friends still got pregnant but to be quite honest, I'm not sure it was accidental... I do not understand why people don't push for more sex ed and I really don't understand why any parent would want to restrict their child's access to birth control.

Though I suppose if we all worked to eliminate the need for abortion we'd have to stop fighting over it and we can't have that.
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Old 08-23-2009, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque
244 posts, read 245,096 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
Is Abortion Murder?
Do you think if it were people would stop doing it? This argument is like the one about "If a tree falls in the forest and there was no one there to hear it, does it still make a noise?"

It takes a human to define what noise is. Impact vibrations and changes to the ambient atmosphere are going to happen regardless if there is a human there to define it or not.

I think people get too caught up in being human that they think they are special. If we were not at the top of the food chain I bet some people would change their minds about abortion - maybe even realize that it isn't an important question. How many religious people are there out there who are good examples of their religion? How many people out there live with chips on their shoulders and cannot get on with life without trying to make up for the mistakes they have made with their own?

How many parents are out there who parent correctly? How many children grow up in affluent households and do not become positive examples of well-adjusted, contributing adults to our society?

I say: stop pushing your morality on me. Our modern religion - and the only one that functions properly, by the way, is called the Law. The law is the one thing that people create and have the ability to change. The law is also something that is beginning to transcend national lines of demarcation.

I say: stop whining about the law and do something about it if you don't like it. That is the option that is open to all of us, and that is a beautiful thing.

Let's face a few realities before tackling issues that cannot be answered, like the fact that sex feels infinitely better without a condom than it does with one. Let's realize that young people do not often think about the future because they have no idea what that means until they have a bit of it under their belt. Life is precious, yes, but someone was allowed to create Grand Theft Auto and they were not sentenced to death because they spread horror and death. Why? The world is to be experienced and we here in the U.S. like our rights to experience them. No one wants to be dictated to.

Just because someone has success at living life one way does not mean that everyone has to live their life that way to be successful and whole. Personally I think there are too many people using oxygen that they have no right to it, but I can't decide who gets it because they use it well, and who does not get it because their lives are a waste.

Stop worrying about what other people do and make a positive difference in the lives of your family and the people you work with. Be a good example and have hope that other people will too. That's the best we get.
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Old 08-24-2009, 06:33 PM
 
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"Murder", I believe, is a legal term...similar to "insanity". Abortion is the deliberate ending of a human life that is in the process of developing. I believe it's immoral. Under civil law, however, it's not 'murder'.
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