U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 07-17-2009, 01:07 PM
 
1,779 posts, read 2,037,515 times
Reputation: 616

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by RVlover View Post
If people werent into the popular american past time of sexual hedonism, there would be no need for this post ; and there would be no need to have the totally defenseless developing Babys head crushed with surgical foreceps, then its brains and other parts sucked into a nearby sink while 'mom' waits patiently by reading the latest copy of Cosmopolitan magazine on how to have better orgasms thru illicit sex. If you as a man get a woman pregnant, you either encourage her to keep YOUR baby which you help support it till age 18 , or, you encourage her to give it up for adoption into a 2 parent loving home . Those are your choices. You do NOT murder a seperate developing LIFE as a scapegoat to your sexual immorality. What ive described above, is what people of integrity do who have spine . I hope you are one of these. Regards.
What you have described is communism...control over people. That is what you it sounds like. Why cant you just love people the way they are? Real integrity would be to leave people to their own life. Dont try to control or dictate what they do. If its not your body stay out of it. So far, no one has given me valid reasons to obtain such control.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-19-2009, 01:16 AM
 
24,718 posts, read 26,785,278 times
Reputation: 22714
Quote:
Originally Posted by indie05 View Post
I keep thinking of this question in my head.

If a girl gets pregnant she has the option to keep the baby or not. The man however does not seem to have any say.... I mean he can't tell her she should keep the baby if she doesn't want it , because it is her body and on the flip side, if he doesn't want to have the baby and she does...her decision trumps...the man is then called a poor father if he is not involved or doesn't support financially... I think that it's not fair to the men.(I am a woman btw)

I don't think saying he fathered the baby and hence is responsible holds any water because as everyone knows ..it takes two to tango....

So it seems to me that men get the shorter end of the stick on this one.
What are your opinions on this?
Yes, I agree men get the shorter end of the stick on this one. That said, they know this going into it.

Pregnancy is always a possibility even if you use a condom. And ultimately, men are responsible for where their sperm goes. So they ought to be careful about who they go to bed with (true for both sexes).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2009, 01:21 AM
 
24,718 posts, read 26,785,278 times
Reputation: 22714
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenBo View Post
I think that the person who really gets the short end of the stick in this scenario is the child. He or she has no say in whether they are aborted, brought to term/born, kept, or given up for adoption. They have no say about anything at all.
I hadn't thought of this initially, but you're right
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2009, 01:26 AM
 
24,718 posts, read 26,785,278 times
Reputation: 22714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Worley View Post
But suppose, for whatever reason, both of them would be horrible parents? Parents that would doom them to a terrible existence.

There is an awful lot of that, nowadays.
That's what adoption is for. Unfortunately, most people don't even think of this as a viable option any more.

And the people having the most unplanned pregnancies are less likely to make good decisions about parenting as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2009, 01:30 AM
 
24,718 posts, read 26,785,278 times
Reputation: 22714
Quote:
Originally Posted by indie05 View Post
But that just means that he had a choice to have sex with the girl... so did she.... the pregnancy could have been an accident, maybe a one-night stand when they are drunk? But the rest...she gets to decide.......

So if she decided to keep the child (her choice, her body) if the guy makes it clear that he does not want the baby, shouldn't he be exempt from having to pay up? For instance women who have babies with diff men... Is it right for them to ask each of the daddies to pay up?

Because again, the argument that he shouldn't have..well that rested on them both equally......
Then don't have sex when you're drunk (or put yourself in a situation where you'll be tempted to) When people drink and drive they get arrested. Come to think of it...when will we collectively wake up and realize getting drunk is a horrible idea in the first place?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-21-2009, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,307,565 times
Reputation: 8606
I've had this argument with my pro choice female freinds.

As for myself, I shouldn't have any say in what a woman can and can't do with her body. If, for example, I am having a sexual relationship with a woman, and she becomes pregnant, I can't tell her she has to have the child.

If she decides, I don't want this child, and I'm going to abort the pregnancy, then I have no right to tell her she must carry the child to term, and then give it to me.

So, knowing that, if I tell her I don't want to have the child, why then should I be forced to pay child support for a child that it wasn't my decision to have? Leave out the "unprotected sex" argument, as believe me, sex can result in pregnancy, regardless of how safe it is being practiced. My sister had an IUD put in, she had a .1 percent of getting pregnant, and poof, she had her third child.

So no, if the man decides to give up all parental rights, then he shouldn't be finacially responsible for a child he didn't want to have. If the woman continues to keep the child, and doesn't decide to put it up for adoption, then its her responsibility to care for it.

If I buy a pet, should you have to feed it?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-21-2009, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
20,014 posts, read 20,509,618 times
Reputation: 20369
Interesting read relating to this subject of mens obligations or lack there of for their bastard children. Granted there are choices now, but it makes you think.

http://www.loyno.edu/~history/journal/1989-0/haller.htm
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-21-2009, 02:30 PM
 
604 posts, read 1,050,556 times
Reputation: 217
Okay. I've gained some insight, a new perspective. It's difficult when the central argument is clouded by so many other factors. Nonetheless, I've decided this:

Alright, fine. A pregnant woman must obtain consent from the father before getting an abortion. I'm not sure how that's gonna work....Ohio's trying it right now, HB 252. But for the sake of argument, let's say okay, father's have to approve the abortion. I'm not even getting into what will happen if he doesn't at this point, that's a whole other issue. Let's just say okay, that's fair, women cannot abort without the father's consent.

Okay. You're right. It's not fair. Fathers have the right to say if his child can or cannot be aborted. Okay.

Does that make you guys feel better? Does that help?

See I'm guessing the majority of you guys would happily consent. There's a few guys who want the child and the mother doesn't, very few, but that's not what the argument was really about, it was having to pay child support for an unwanted child.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-21-2009, 02:44 PM
 
5,767 posts, read 10,025,848 times
Reputation: 3809
Quote:
So no, if the man decides to give up all parental rights, then he shouldn't be finacially responsible for a child he didn't want to have. If the woman continues to keep the child, and doesn't decide to put it up for adoption, then its her responsibility to care for it.
The law is supposedley written from the point of view of the "best interests of the child."

As long as the child exists, someone has to pay for the child's upkeep. In most cases, that burden falls first to the biological parents.

Whatever disputes the parents may have with one another is largely irrelevant to that issue.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-21-2009, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,307,565 times
Reputation: 8606
Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
The law is supposedley written from the point of view of the "best interests of the child."

As long as the child exists, someone has to pay for the child's upkeep. In most cases, that burden falls first to the biological parents.

Whatever disputes the parents may have with one another is largely irrelevant to that issue.
I understand that, but as of now, the woman has the right to have the child or not. The man has no choice.

If we are going to have a "prochoice" argument, then the man should have that choice as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top