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Old 07-21-2009, 04:09 PM
 
604 posts, read 1,051,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
I understand that, but as of now, the woman has the right to have the child or not. The man has no choice.

If we are going to have a "prochoice" argument, then the man should have that choice as well.
...and so I agree......a father ought to have a say in whether or not his child is aborted. So a mother needs his consent for an abortion, I would argue legally. So that's that, right?
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Old 07-21-2009, 04:25 PM
 
5,767 posts, read 10,032,857 times
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Quote:
I understand that, but as of now, the woman has the right to have the child or not. The man has no choice.
That's just how it goes. Men, of course, have a choice to use birth control methods or refrain from sex with women they don't want to get pregnant. Once a child actually comes into existence, the father's financial desires are mostly irrelevant. And you obviously can't compel an unwilling woman to have an abortion.

Quote:
a father ought to have a say in whether or not his child is aborted. So a mother needs his consent for an abortion
That would probably be held to be unconstitutional on privacy grounds.
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Old 07-21-2009, 04:34 PM
 
604 posts, read 1,051,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
That's just how it goes. Men, of course, have a choice to use birth control methods or refrain from sex with women they don't want to get pregnant. Once a child actually comes into existence, the father's financial desires are mostly irrelevant. And you obviously can't compel an unwilling woman to have an abortion.



That would probably be held to be unconstitutional on privacy grounds.
Oh yeah, it was just for the sake of argument....but there actually is a house bill in Ohio just presented on this issue. For all the guys arguing they should have a say in abortion, I was willing to grant that consent would be necessary, and that would 'weed out' all those who think that "financial desires" ARE relevant.
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Old 07-21-2009, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,321,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbledeez View Post
...and so I agree......a father ought to have a say in whether or not his child is aborted. So a mother needs his consent for an abortion, I would argue legally. So that's that, right?
No, because it'll be thrown out as unconstitutional for a person to have say so over another persons body like that. No man should be able to tell a woman she can't get an abortion, just like no woman should be able to tell a man you've got to pay for a child you didn't want.

That resolves both issues right.

Again Pro-choice, if a woman gets a choice, then the man should to.
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Old 07-21-2009, 04:56 PM
 
604 posts, read 1,051,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
No, because it'll be thrown out as unconstitutional for a person to have say so over another persons body like that. No man should be able to tell a woman she can't get an abortion, just like no woman should be able to tell a man you've got to pay for a child you didn't want.

That resolves both issues right.

Again Pro-choice, if a woman gets a choice, then the man should to.
Ummmm, no. "To have say so over another persons body" is VERY different than having "to pay for a child"....because, like I said, let's say for the sake of argument, that the father DID have a right to choose abortion. Throw out legalities and constitutional rights, just say that were the case.....that's what you guys were fighting for right? A say in abortion?
Or, umm, was there some other issue? Oh, maybe it's something like guys venting about having to pay child support. I'm not sure where you'll get sympathy for that one, except from other DBDs.
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Old 07-21-2009, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,321,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbledeez View Post
Ummmm, no. "To have say so over another persons body" is VERY different than having "to pay for a child"....because, like I said, let's say for the sake of argument, that the father DID have a right to choose abortion. Throw out legalities and constitutional rights, just say that were the case.....that's what you guys were fighting for right? A say in abortion?
Or, umm, was there some other issue? Oh, maybe it's something like guys venting about having to pay child support. I'm not sure where you'll get sympathy for that one, except from other DBDs.
No, we are fighting for the right to have a child or not, and all the responsibilities that come there with.

Thats why most women have abortions, because they don't want to have the child. So, if I say, "I don't want to have the child, I want you to have an abortion. I will help you pay for it, but that will be the end of it." Then she says, "No, I want to have the child." The man should be relieved of all responsibilities, as well as rights to the child.
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Old 07-21-2009, 05:46 PM
 
604 posts, read 1,051,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
No, we are fighting for the right to have a child or not, and all the responsibilities that come there with.

Thats why most women have abortions, because they don't want to have the child. So, if I say, "I don't want to have the child, I want you to have an abortion. I will help you pay for it, but that will be the end of it." Then she says, "No, I want to have the child." The man should be relieved of all responsibilities, as well as rights to the child.
OH. I see. So because she has the right to have an abortion without your consent, you want the right to abandon the child if she has it and you don't want it? Do you realize how crazy that sounds? Are you serious? How is that fighting for ".......all the responsibilities"? Who do you expect to take care of YOUR child? Just because you didn't want it? Who will be dad to that kid? How is it responsible for you to completely bail on your child? And insist you have a right to do so?? What does that say about you? Do you really want to fight for that right?? What if you had it? What if any guy who got a girl knocked up could just 'opt out' of being a dad. How do you think that will turn out??
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Old 07-21-2009, 05:47 PM
 
Location: southern california
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the women dont play by queen's rules, she is the queen she makes the rules.
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Old 07-21-2009, 05:49 PM
 
1,779 posts, read 2,038,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
No, we are fighting for the right to have a child or not, and all the responsibilities that come there with.

Thats why most women have abortions, because they don't want to have the child. So, if I say, "I don't want to have the child, I want you to have an abortion. I will help you pay for it, but that will be the end of it." Then she says, "No, I want to have the child." The man should be relieved of all responsibilities, as well as rights to the child.
I agree, the woman has the right to escape responsibility, so should the man. To say that a man can choose during sex is as dumb as it comes. Women too have this choice...ever heard of birth control...if you are a woman and do not want to get pregnant...use it and make sure any man you have sex with uses a condom. SO, if your not on birth control and the man wont wrap it...no sex...its as simple as that...both people have the option before sex.

But a man as as much right to say he wants nothing to do with the child after it is born as the woman does while she is pregnant.

The woman can abort the birth, or not...But the man is stuck with whatever her decision is? well if she chooses abortion and the man didnt want it...you all say that is too bad...its her body, right? Well, the man has a body too and his body works for a paycheck and he should not have to sacrifice his money to pay for a child he does not want and will never see.
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Old 07-21-2009, 05:51 PM
 
1,779 posts, read 2,038,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbledeez View Post
OH. I see. So because she has the right to have an abortion without your consent, you want the right to abandon the child if she has it and you don't want it? Do you realize how crazy that sounds? Are you serious? How is that fighting for ".......all the responsibilities"? Who do you expect to take care of YOUR child? Just because you didn't want it? Who will be dad to that kid? How is it responsible for you to completely bail on your child? And insist you have a right to do so?? What does that say about you? Do you really want to fight for that right?? What if you had it? What if any guy who got a girl knocked up could just 'opt out' of being a dad. How do you think that will turn out??
She still has options, she could get an abortion if she chooses, but if she does not then the child is hers and hers alone. The man at this point cannot come back into the child's life and has no say in anything the mother does. It actually pretty simple.
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