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Old 07-23-2009, 10:35 AM
 
Location: nc
1,244 posts, read 2,456,715 times
Reputation: 325

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbledeez View Post
YES. Does yours? Do you realize what you're fighting for? The right to abandon your child without consequence?
It is interesting that women can leave their babies at hospitals no questions asked and I have a lot of respect for those women at least having the kid and not aborting them but if a man abandons a child it is to his shame. It's still wrong though, there are advantages and disadvantages to each sex I guess.
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Old 07-23-2009, 01:27 PM
 
Location: NYC area
3,486 posts, read 4,948,955 times
Reputation: 3848
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post

It still sounds as if this bill is one sided. Theoretically, It would give the man authority to veto a womans decision to get an abortion, leaving him with the responsibility of the child, maybe, but does it give him authority to force an abortion? If not, this still does not give him any say over responsibility of the child just the authority to force somone to carry a child to term.
Also, nothing in the bill obligates the man who vetoes an abortion to pay for the woman's medical care or to reimburse her for lost wages.
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Old 07-23-2009, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Connecticut
1,461 posts, read 4,109,600 times
Reputation: 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by indie05 View Post
I keep thinking of this question in my head.

If a girl gets pregnant she has the option to keep the baby or not. The man however does not seem to have any say.... I mean he can't tell her she should keep the baby if she doesn't want it , because it is her body and on the flip side, if he doesn't want to have the baby and she does...her decision trumps...the man is then called a poor father if he is not involved or doesn't support financially... I think that it's not fair to the men.(I am a woman btw)

I don't think saying he fathered the baby and hence is responsible holds any water because as everyone knows ..it takes two to tango....

So it seems to me that men get the shorter end of the stick on this one.
What are your opinions on this?
Too controversial for here and keep in mind Roe Vs. Wade. Nuff said!
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Old 07-23-2009, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
20,092 posts, read 20,595,029 times
Reputation: 20420
Quote:
Also, nothing in the bill obligates the man who vetoes an abortion to pay for the woman's medical care or to reimburse her for lost wages.
I was assuming if he vetoed the abortion, he was subject to child support laws. Yes, he should also be responsible for the financial set back and any resulting physical or emotional trauma. Gym membership to get rid of that baby fat, laser treatments for the stretch marks, little lift for the boob saggage. Counseling and meds for the postpartum depression.
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Old 07-23-2009, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
20,092 posts, read 20,595,029 times
Reputation: 20420
Quote:
It is interesting that women can leave their babies at hospitals no questions asked and I have a lot of respect for those women at least having the kid and not aborting them but if a man abandons a child it is to his shame. It's still wrong though, there are advantages and disadvantages to each sex I guess.
I'd guess that if the man hadnt already jumped ship, the woman wouldnt be leaving the baby at the hospital.
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Old 07-23-2009, 02:12 PM
 
Location: NYC area
3,486 posts, read 4,948,955 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
I was assuming if he vetoed the abortion, he was subject to child support laws. Yes, he should also be responsible for the financial set back and any resulting physical or emotional trauma. Gym membership to get rid of that baby fat, laser treatments for the stretch marks, little lift for the boob saggage. Counseling and meds for the postpartum depression.
Well, naturally. Although, just paying for prenatal care and the cost of childbirth that he made necessary by his veto would be a nice start.

Also, a man may veto an abortion, then claim he's not the father when sued for child support. I don't think the bill creates any presumption of paternity, does it. If it turns out he's not the father, the damage is already done; the woman can't turn around and unbirth the baby.
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Old 07-24-2009, 10:05 PM
 
604 posts, read 1,052,606 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
so you feel it okay for a woman to get an abortion(stopping a child from being born) but think it is wrong for a man to not want anything to do with the mother or kid? Wow, now I see who you really are. I think we all know what you are and what you fight for. But hey its your right to feel this way.

Seriously, a man and woman MUST have equal rights without ones rights our ranking the other, as it is, the womans rights in this case out rank the mans...Yes, the woman should be able to get an abortion, but if the woman has that right then it only makes sense to allow the man to have the same option with a twist. The woman can get an abortion in an allowed time frame, the man has the same amount of time to opt out of the duty of father hood and financial help. if Either decide to ignore their rights and the time passes then they are both obligated to care for that child or agree together to give the child up. Once the child is born it is equally the mans and the womans.


As it is now, the woman has all control when it comes to children, When you do this you make all men look bad, you basically are saying than all men are bad and can not handle being a father...I know many men that are single dads becasue the mother is a drug *****, in prison, or just plain abandoned her children. When a woman does this we think nothing of it and choose to ignore it. But I want to tell you that woman who abandon their children equal the same amount of men that do this. Men are not the only dead beats, society just thinks a woman is too pure to do such a thing. Woman always get off lighter than men in all cases. Tell me where a woman is punished or ridiculed more harshly than a man...you cant, becasue there are none. Women make men to be asses just like you are doing now. To what agenda I do not know. But, women wanted equal rights, I say we give it to them. If you dont like it, I dont care, that is the way it should be. Equal across the board.

On a side note...I do respect that you have a point of view on this matter, not that I agree with it, but at least you address the problem is out there...thank you...I think.
The rationale has been difficult to process. In an effort to understand, I did another read-through of your arguments. As expected, my synopsis remains unchanged. No matter how it is stated, or defended, or explained, your main argument, what you are really fighting for, is the right to abandon your child. At first you claimed this right because the woman can abort, then you changed your position and stated the woman has a right to abort because it's her body. To explore the underlying rationale, I proposed various scenarios. The reactions to these scenarios reveal the common theme, the basic proposition, what you're really fighting for.....and that's the right to walk away. It always comes back to that. And it's never about the child. Hardly ever was the child a genuine concern. It's always some she can/I can't/her rights/ my rights......and of course no one mentioned the actual child birth.
So basically what you're saying is, because the woman has the right to abort, and even if you have a say in whether or not she can legally, you still want the right to abandon that child, if she wants to have it and you don't. You are fighting for the right to abandon your unborn child. That's what all this boils down to.....you want that right.
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Old 07-24-2009, 10:34 PM
 
1,779 posts, read 2,042,402 times
Reputation: 616
I want the same rights as the woman yes...Why should the woman have all the say in situations like these? A man is stuck with the decision of the woman. What if the woman has the child just to keep the man in her life? This is wrong.

If the woman has the child and gives it up for adoption then the man is excused from child support, and the mother takes no form of responsibility other than giving up her child. If a man wanted to give up his rights you would call him names and think bad of him. The man can take take all parental rights, but getting a woman to actually have to pay child support is a tough one and she can give up parental rights 100% without the consent of the father. But a man in her situation cannot.

If the woman decides to have an abortion, a few will say that she shouldnt, blah blah, blah...and the man is excused of having to pay child support and the woman again takes no form of responsibility. The man cannot stop her no matter what.

Now the woman decided to have the kid and keep it...the man does not want a kid...and does not want to support it or have anything to do with it...again you call him names and speak poorly of him...but he is doing nothing different than a woman who has an abortion or who gives the kid up for adoption.

Basically the man is stuck with the woman's choices. That is not right...if it was the other way around and abortion was not legal unless a man said so or the woman could not get out of her parental duty to take care of the child, you would be fighting for her right to do so.

By my assessment, your arguments are just anti male, what have you got against men? When I look are YOUR statements that is what I bring from it. When it comes down to it all you want is the ability to tell a man what to do..and that is not your right.
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Old 07-24-2009, 10:45 PM
 
604 posts, read 1,052,606 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
I want the same rights as the woman yes...Why should the woman have all the say in situations like these? A man is stuck with the decision of the woman. What if the woman has the child just to keep the man in her life? This is wrong.

If the woman has the child and gives it up for adoption then the man is excused from child support, and the mother takes no form of responsibility other than giving up her child. If a man wanted to give up his rights you would call him names and think bad of him. The man can take take all parental rights, but getting a woman to actually have to pay child support is a tough one and she can give up parental rights 100% without the consent of the father. But a man in her situation cannot.

If the woman decides to have an abortion, a few will say that she shouldnt, blah blah, blah...and the man is excused of having to pay child support and the woman again takes no form of responsibility. The man cannot stop her no matter what.

Now the woman decided to have the kid and keep it...the man does not want a kid...and does not want to support it or have anything to do with it...again you call him names and speak poorly of him...but he is doing nothing different than a woman who has an abortion or who gives the kid up for adoption.

Basically the man is stuck with the woman's choices. That is not right...if it was the other way around and abortion was not legal unless a man said so or the woman could not get out of her parental duty to take care of the child, you would be fighting for her right to do so.

By my assessment, your arguments are just anti male, what have you got against men? When I look are YOUR statements that is what I bring from it. When it comes down to it all you want is the ability to tell a man what to do..and that is not your right.
I understand what you're saying. You want an 'out'. You want the right to walk away, the right to abandon your unborn child. You don't think a man needs to pay child support or be a father to a child he did not want. I know all this.
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Old 07-24-2009, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,364,546 times
Reputation: 8606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbledeez View Post
I understand what you're saying. You want an 'out'. You want the right to walk away, the right to abandon your unborn child. You don't think a man needs to pay child support or be a father to a child he did not want. I know all this.
And thats the same right a woman has if she decides to get an abortion. What he is saying is he wants the exact same rights as the woman.

That right is

Do you want to keep the child (ie feed, pay for, care for, be responsible for) from an unwanted pregnancy?

Women have this right, they can get an abortion. Men do not have this right, we can't get an abortion, nor force a woman to get one. It wouldn't be right to force a woman to get an abortion, or to have to carry a child that she doesn't want.

Whats good for the goose, is good for the gander right.
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