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Old 07-31-2009, 07:09 AM
 
604 posts, read 1,050,556 times
Reputation: 217

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
I have to say that women will never understand this until we take away abortion and at will adoption. FYI- i am for abortion and adoption. But, if we where to take away those things women would be doing the same thing as we are on this thread. So, you want men to stop whining about having to pay up...well then women, im sorry but since men have to pay to play then so do women. Imagine if there was no way to give up a child unless the state took them away? You would have people rioting in the streets. But when a guy suggests something similar to the options of adoption or abortion, which it is, you all think he is a cheap bastard whining about his paycheck. Hey I have an idea, since the man is paying for the kid then he should have majority custody. Whomever provides more money for the child gets the child, that works for me in half the discussion. But now for the guys who dont want to have the child at all...well I still say sign over all rights, give her like $2000 and off you go. Or if you want men to pay childsupport...make the amount less...but if the man has no parental rights then he should have no financial obligation. I also think the money he gives should have to be recorded and kept track of so that they can audit the woman one a year or something. Every dollar must be spent on the kid and the kid alone, not the mother. Rent, utilites and her food and hygine products should be paid for out of her pocket. Clothes, food, school supplies, and stuff related to the child should be paid with the money from the father, but not only by the father.
Okay, so now you're suggesting that in order to make women understand your argument, and the only way to teach them you have to "pay to play" is to make abortions and adoptions illegal. Well that leaves you in the same position, but now, you're forced to have children that neither one of you want. Either way, you gotta pay. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, if both parents agree to adoption, I 'think' you get out of this evil, evil conspiracy of child support. So once again, your logic is just, well, priceless.
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Old 07-31-2009, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
20,014 posts, read 20,509,618 times
Reputation: 20369
Quote:
Okay, so now you're suggesting that in order to make women understand your argument, and the only way to teach them you have to "pay to play" is to make abortions and adoptions illegal.
LOL. That is how this whole child support situation started! Women paying, actually the children, because of no abortion and unregulated "adoption". I have mentioned before the papers on bastardy and baby farming in Victorian England. Pretty interesting read on the back and forth of a fathers responsibility or lack of for illegitimate children and the consequences.
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Old 07-31-2009, 03:38 PM
 
1,779 posts, read 2,037,515 times
Reputation: 616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbledeez View Post
Okay, so now you're suggesting that in order to make women understand your argument, and the only way to teach them you have to "pay to play" is to make abortions and adoptions illegal. Well that leaves you in the same position, but now, you're forced to have children that neither one of you want. Either way, you gotta pay. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, if both parents agree to adoption, I 'think' you get out of this evil, evil conspiracy of child support. So once again, your logic is just, well, priceless.
lol...well duh, of course that leaves us in the same position. But this way atleast women might have an idea what its like to be forced into being something you dont want to be. Plain and simple fact...women have a choice as soon as they discover they are pregnant and then once they have the child they can choose to abandon that child at anytime. But if the man wants to hes a bastard and a bad person. WTF...Women leave their kids all the time...but do we hear about this..no, if we do then something was wrong with the woman or the husband or father was a bad person. So no matter what way you look at it...the man is always the bad guy.

People need to grow up and see things the way they really are. It is wrong to force someone into something they do not want to do.
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Old 07-31-2009, 03:42 PM
 
Location: NYC area
3,486 posts, read 4,938,535 times
Reputation: 3848
Quote:
Originally Posted by haggardhouseelf View Post
How to Find Federal Grants for Women | eHow.com

That doesn't point you to a specific grant opportunity for women, but it talks about how you can go about finding one in case you're interested. They are certainly out there. In fact... I sometimes wonder if there are more federal grants out there for minorities, refugees, and women than there are for white American men?
When I graduated high school, our male valedictorian received an award of several thousand dollars from the American Society of Women Engineers. He rejected the award because he was embarrassed by the fact it came from a women's organization. So I'm actually wondering how many women's organizations out there actually give money to men, except that the men are too squeamish to accept it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haggardhouseelf View Post
Honestly I feel like white American men have a tough time of it right now. They generally have to work extra hard because there is so much competition coming from all over. Not just from women, but from outsourcing and hiring from other countries which have better educational systems, and the whole equal opportunity thing. (I'm not saying the EO is a bad thing, I'm just saying that it just makes things harder for white men who used to not have to think about it...) For example, many police departments pass over highly qualified white American men and hire less experienced or less qualified minorities or women because the public feels that minorities and women are often under represented or in some cases even mistreated by white male police officers. This is just one example of how it's not always an easy ticket, being the white American male. You often get the shorter end of the stick and it's totally socially and politically acceptable... whereas if the same thing happened to a minority or a woman that happened to you - it would be a huge conspiracy and/or controversy and all over the news...
White American men totally dominate my profession. And Wall Street. So I don't see what's there to whine about.
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Old 07-31-2009, 03:59 PM
 
Location: NYC area
3,486 posts, read 4,938,535 times
Reputation: 3848
Fractured Man: I AM a lawyer. It is a cardinal legal principle (known as the "burden of proof") that the person who makes a claim has the burden to prove it. Only once you've met that burden is the other side's lawyer obligated to look for evidence to disprove it. Making an unsubstantiated bald assertion does not obligate the other side to look for evidence to show it's false. That's just Legal Process 101 for you. You've also made lots of things up. Women cannot, in fact, abandon children any time. Women cannot collect child support from multiple men for a single child. Women cannot unilaterally give children up for adoption. You simply lied about those things. Moreover, the only reason that women have the option of terminating their pregnancies, is that they (duh) get pregnant, unlike men, who don't get pregnant.

Your claim that women abandon children all the time and that men are bashed for being bad fathers is also totally bogus. In fact, our society looks much more favorably on men who abandon their children than on women who do the same. A case in point: serious illness. Last year, my son was diagnosed with a devastating condition. Since then, I cannot tell you how many well-meaning people have told me that my husband is a hero simply because he didn't leave us. After all, the divorce rate among parents who have children with this condition stands at around 90%. (I have no argument with the fact that my husband is a hero, but it's certainly not because he just didn't dump us.) This kind of s*** is routinely said to women who have sick children or who are sick themselves. "This man is a hero, he didn't leave his severely ill child." "This man is a hero, he puts up with a disabled wife." My knee-jerk response to this is "Well, I didn't ditch my son and husband either. Do I get a medal too?" The facial expressions I get when I say that are priceless.

The truth is, we have a society where a man is deemed to be within his moral rights to simply discard a sick child or a sick wife like a broken appliance, and go shop for a new one. True, some "feminazis" will call him a bastard, but most "thinking people" will be more than understanding of his plight, I'm sure. Only men, too, get to have the "midlife crisis". It is much more morally acceptable for a man than for a woman to declare one day that, being 40 and stuck with 3 kids and a wife who ain't 20 anymore, he's sick of the drudgery of domesticity and wants to "live a little" -- then pack his bags and leave. This is not to say that such an act wouldn't be controversial; but it's much more likely to meet with "understanding" than if a woman were to do the same thing.

So it's actually the exact opposite of what you are saying. Society is a lot tougher on women than on men when it comes to child-related responsibilities.
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Old 07-31-2009, 05:09 PM
 
1,779 posts, read 2,037,515 times
Reputation: 616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redisca View Post
Fractured Man: I AM a lawyer. It is a cardinal legal principle (known as the "burden of proof") that the person who makes a claim has the burden to prove it. Only once you've met that burden is the other side's lawyer obligated to look for evidence to disprove it. Making an unsubstantiated bald assertion does not obligate the other side to look for evidence to show it's false. That's just Legal Process 101 for you. You've also made lots of things up. Women cannot, in fact, abandon children any time. Women cannot collect child support from multiple men for a single child. Women cannot unilaterally give children up for adoption. You simply lied about those things. Moreover, the only reason that women have the option of terminating their pregnancies, is that they (duh) get pregnant, unlike men, who don't get pregnant.

Your claim that women abandon children all the time and that men are bashed for being bad fathers is also totally bogus. In fact, our society looks much more favorably on men who abandon their children than on women who do the same. A case in point: serious illness. Last year, my son was diagnosed with a devastating condition. Since then, I cannot tell you how many well-meaning people have told me that my husband is a hero simply because he didn't leave us. After all, the divorce rate among parents who have children with this condition stands at around 90%. (I have no argument with the fact that my husband is a hero, but it's certainly not because he just didn't dump us.) This kind of s*** is routinely said to women who have sick children or who are sick themselves. "This man is a hero, he didn't leave his severely ill child." "This man is a hero, he puts up with a disabled wife." My knee-jerk response to this is "Well, I didn't ditch my son and husband either. Do I get a medal too?" The facial expressions I get when I say that are priceless.

The truth is, we have a society where a man is deemed to be within his moral rights to simply discard a sick child or a sick wife like a broken appliance, and go shop for a new one. True, some "feminazis" will call him a bastard, but most "thinking people" will be more than understanding of his plight, I'm sure. Only men, too, get to have the "midlife crisis". It is much more morally acceptable for a man than for a woman to declare one day that, being 40 and stuck with 3 kids and a wife who ain't 20 anymore, he's sick of the drudgery of domesticity and wants to "live a little" -- then pack his bags and leave. This is not to say that such an act wouldn't be controversial; but it's much more likely to meet with "understanding" than if a woman were to do the same thing.

So it's actually the exact opposite of what you are saying. Society is a lot tougher on women than on men when it comes to child-related responsibilities.

Can you prove that please...that seems like something you pulled out of your rear...also, the collecting child support from mutliple men part I never said they do, I was responding to the previous posters claims that that is how it should be. SO, do me a favor and read things through before you make yourself look like an ars.

Woman can and do abandon their children all the time. Women abuse and neglect chilrdren all the time and they get off light. They always use mental stress or something to that nature. Look at all the female teachers out there that have sex with students and they get short amount of time in prison and a slap on the wrist. Society just does not think women can do wrong. Which is false, woman are worse than men in some cases. Where I live, women have no morals and will do anything for a fix or some booze. There are so many single mothers its rediculas. You cant blame the men on this either. Most girls I know got pregnant from a guy who did things illegal and are now in prison. They knew what they where getting into and still did it.

I could care less what your profession is or how it is domonated by whomever. Look at the nursing field...mostly women, look at any type of assistant or pharmasist...mostly women. a lawyer makes how much? not as much as some pharmasists.

Also, can you prove that your validictorian was offered money from a womans group? can you prove that the validictorian was a man? can you prove any of which you have claimed in any of your posts?
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Old 07-31-2009, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Norwood, MN
1,828 posts, read 3,279,635 times
Reputation: 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb64282 View Post
It is interesting that women can leave their babies at hospitals no questions asked and I have a lot of respect for those women at least having the kid and not aborting them but if a man abandons a child it is to his shame. It's still wrong though, there are advantages and disadvantages to each sex I guess.
Men who will not pay child support for their children are the biggest piles of ---- to ever walk the face of the earth.
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Old 07-31-2009, 08:01 PM
 
1,779 posts, read 2,037,515 times
Reputation: 616
Quote:
Originally Posted by big daryle View Post
Men who will not pay child support for their children are the biggest piles of ---- to ever walk the face of the earth.
What about the ones who through no fault of their own cannot see their children because the mother of his children is a ***** and just wants to get his money and nothing else? if you think this doesnt happen you are blind.

Men are made to be bad people by women all the time to get sole custody of their kids. But they still want his money? You seriously see nothing wrong with this?

If a woman wants child support then the man should have equal rights to the kids. 100% shared down the middle custody. The less money he wants to pay the less custody he gets.
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Old 08-02-2009, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Chicago- Lawrence and Kedzie/Maywood
2,242 posts, read 5,434,390 times
Reputation: 735
Quote:
Originally Posted by big daryle View Post
Men who will not pay child support for their children are the biggest piles of ---- to ever walk the face of the earth.
Oh yes, but a woman can abort to avoid paying and be a saint.
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Old 08-02-2009, 04:10 PM
 
1,779 posts, read 2,037,515 times
Reputation: 616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Oh yes, but a woman can abort to avoid paying and be a saint.
[sarcasm] women dont do that, come on. We all know every woman out there is a saint and cannot do wrong.
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