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Old 08-13-2009, 10:09 AM
 
Location: NYC area
3,486 posts, read 4,938,535 times
Reputation: 3848

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
See I ask you for proof and all you say is you want proof which leads me to think you have none and your claims are false.
Where is your proof?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
First off, I am sure I read more than you any day.
Go ahead and prove it! Oh, right, you can't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
Also, I do not see how attempts at insulting me will help you, this is the lawyer mentality...when in doubt or no other options degrade the opposition and insult them.
Where is your proof of that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
yep, this give me high hopes for people in the law field, and you wonder why you are overlooked? its not for being a woman I can tell you that.
Can you prove it? I think not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
So prove it, you say there is proof yet show none.
You can't prove that I showed no proof. Go ahead, prove there is no proof, I dare ya.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
I have asked for proof on you claims many times and have received none, please enlighten me...you would be surprised what might happen. Just ask some people on the recently closed abortion thread.
What's your proof of that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
Again, you attempt to insult rather than provide proof and pass over an opportunity to educate, Trust me you have not been held back for being a woman...its for being and *** and attacking when you should not be attacking...
What's your proof?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
have you even won a case?
Have you? And can you prove it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
Or do you just insult the judge and jury when you lose?
Prove that I ever lost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
Can you provide any proof to what you claim?
Can you provide any proof to what you claim? Apparently not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
In your experiance...well in my experiance I have had more female bosses and managers and I have been passed up because I am a man...do you understant what I am getting at?
Can you prove that it's "experiance" and not "experience"? Can you prove it's "understant" and not "understand"? Can you prove anything that you've claimed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
I can make claims as well but unless I validate them they mean jack...
Since you haven't validated any of your claims, they all mean jack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
so I have asked you several times for proof in any and all of your claims and you have come back only to insult and ask for proof of my claims. Does not give you a solid argument.
What's your proof?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
Where they handing out law degrees one day where you live or did you find one in a cracker jack box?
That's up to you to prove. Can you prove where I got my law degree?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
I have no problem with women as long as they are open minded and understand reason.
Where is your proof?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
Your distaste for men is in your posts, I will admit I am sour from past dealings with women, but it does not change my liking of them.
Prove it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
Okay, you know I have to ask...Where is your Proof?
Where is yours?
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Old 08-13-2009, 04:14 PM
 
1,779 posts, read 2,037,515 times
Reputation: 616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redisca View Post
Where is your proof?

Go ahead and prove it! Oh, right, you can't.

Where is your proof of that?

Can you prove it? I think not.

You can't prove that I showed no proof. Go ahead, prove there is no proof, I dare ya.

What's your proof of that?

What's your proof?

Have you? And can you prove it?

Prove that I ever lost.

Can you provide any proof to what you claim? Apparently not.

Can you prove that it's "experiance" and not "experience"? Can you prove it's "understant" and not "understand"? Can you prove anything that you've claimed?

Since you haven't validated any of your claims, they all mean jack.

What's your proof?

That's up to you to prove. Can you prove where I got my law degree?

Where is your proof?

Prove it!


Where is yours?
If you truly are a lawyer, I feel sorry for your clients. Never have I encountered anyone who is as disrespectful as you have been on this thread. So, I am done with this thread and am recommending that it comes to a close. All points have gotten out, we have made no progress and it seems some have resorted to childish nature only to egg people on. There can be no winner in this argument.
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Old 08-13-2009, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,307,565 times
Reputation: 8606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redisca View Post
Ah, now you are introducing qualifications. What if the man says that he wants to remain married but not to support the child? I mean, his wishes rule, right? And what about a non-marital long-term relationship?
I believe thats called "Irreconsilable differences". I don't know any woman who would stay with a man, that didn't want their children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redisca View Post
don't care if he says it, but if he does, he can't change his mind, period. Once a "sperm donor", always a "sperm donor". No second chances. A woman who aborts doesn't get to unabort. The consequences for the man should be the same.
He didn't change his mind, he wanted to have sex. He wasn't trying to have a child. Thats the point, if a unwanted pregnancy happens afterwards, then thats a new situation. He should then get to decide what he wants to do about the new situation, just like the woman does. I'd be willing to bet you most people have sex without thinking, "Lets make a baby"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redisca View Post
If it's her responsibility and hers alone, then the benefits are also hers and hers alone. What you want is for the man to get out of the responsibility, but get the benefits anyway. Gee, I'd love disclaim the responsibility of paying the car lease, but still drive the car. The deal you want is a bit too sweat if you ask me. A man doesn't get to renounce his responsibilities without also renouncing all the benefits, every single one. Even hypothetical ones. Even the ones the child might be willing to grant. Even benefits very far into the future. All of them. You don't want the child, you don't get the teenager, and you don't get the adult, no matter how much you might regret it in the future. Short of that, cough up the child support.
I've always said that if the man opted out of paying child support, then he should have absolutely nothing to do with the child. If he shows up at the childs 5th birthday with a present, call the cops because a stranger is at the house.

If, at 18 years old, the child wants to know their biological father, then thats up to them. You can't tell an adult who they can and can't talk to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Redisca View Post
, and a father can just abandon a child at the side of the road. It's possible. Right? But illegal.
Yeah, and if a mother did that, it'd be illegal to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redisca View Post
man's option would be to rescind the adoption. Failure to notify the father properly, complying with the applicable statutes to the letter, is absolute grounds for rescission. That's why adoptions always involve lawyers. They make sure everything is done by the book.
Being illegal, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
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Old 08-13-2009, 06:10 PM
 
604 posts, read 1,050,556 times
Reputation: 217
[quote=Memphis1979;10264557]I believe thats called "Irreconsilable differences". I don't know any woman who would stay with a man, that didn't want their children. quote]

But we're talking about ANY unplanned pregnancy right? Or maybe ABY pregnancy? So the married man could 'abort' his role as a father in their child's life and just leave the woman?
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Old 08-13-2009, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,307,565 times
Reputation: 8606
[quote=Dbledeez;10265765]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
I believe thats called "Irreconsilable differences". I don't know any woman who would stay with a man, that didn't want their children. quote]

But we're talking about ANY unplanned pregnancy right? Or maybe ABY pregnancy? So the married man could 'abort' his role as a father in their child's life and just leave the woman?
Yep, just like the woman can have an abortion, and that so infuriates the man that he wants to leave her. Maybe she wants to leave him because he doesn't want her to have an abortion.

Two sides to every coin.
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Old 08-13-2009, 07:56 PM
 
604 posts, read 1,050,556 times
Reputation: 217
[quote=Memphis1979;10265818]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbledeez View Post

Yep, just like the woman can have an abortion, and that so infuriates the man that he wants to leave her. Maybe she wants to leave him because he doesn't want her to have an abortion.

Two sides to every coin.
...and not help out at all? How do you think that will work out in the long run?? How many men would run if they could? How will that affect the children?
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Old 08-13-2009, 08:01 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,307,565 times
Reputation: 8606
[quote=Dbledeez;10267337]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post

...and not help out at all? How do you think that will work out in the long run?? How many men would run if they could? How will that affect the children?
I think you'd find their would be considerably less unwanted pregnancies.

I think that women would start taking advantage of the choices they have, and not get pregnant at all.

I think that the kids that are born, will most likely then have two biological parents that love them, and care for them.

Take away the crutch, and make people walk on their own.
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Old 08-13-2009, 08:55 PM
 
604 posts, read 1,050,556 times
Reputation: 217
[quote=Memphis1979;10267411]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbledeez View Post

I think you'd find their would be considerably less unwanted pregnancies.

I think that women would start taking advantage of the choices they have, and not get pregnant at all.

I think that the kids that are born, will most likely then have two biological parents that love them, and care for them.

Take away the crutch, and make people walk on their own.
We were starting this debate with the understanding that BOTH parties were equally responsible for the unplanned pregnancy. So you can't attribute a decrease in unwanted pregnancies soley to the woman and her part in preventing pregnancy by suggesting that if SHE would've been on the pill or made you use a condom that she would not have gotten pregnannt at all. The premise is they were both responsible. So you're left with one explanation for fewer unwanted pregnancies -- more abortions. That's got to be the choice you're talking about, of all those advantageous choices.
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Old 08-14-2009, 05:20 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,307,565 times
Reputation: 8606
[quote=Dbledeez;10268187]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post

We were starting this debate with the understanding that BOTH parties were equally responsible for the unplanned pregnancy. So you can't attribute a decrease in unwanted pregnancies soley to the woman and her part in preventing pregnancy by suggesting that if SHE would've been on the pill or made you use a condom that she would not have gotten pregnannt at all. The premise is they were both responsible. So you're left with one explanation for fewer unwanted pregnancies -- more abortions. That's got to be the choice you're talking about, of all those advantageous choices.
I was referring to the mourning after pill, that prevents the pregnancy, after the act has been completed.

Birth control pills fail, condoms break, the mourning after pill works.
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Old 08-14-2009, 05:29 AM
 
Location: NYC area
3,486 posts, read 4,938,535 times
Reputation: 3848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
I believe thats called "Irreconsilable differences". I don't know any woman who would stay with a man, that didn't want their children.
Under your scheme, a man could decide to declare himself a "sperm donor" after the woman could no longer abort. So you still have a problem of children conceived in marriage that you are allowing husbands not to support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
He didn't change his mind, he wanted to have sex. He wasn't trying to have a child. Thats the point, if a unwanted pregnancy happens afterwards, then thats a new situation. He should then get to decide what he wants to do about the new situation, just like the woman does. I'd be willing to bet you most people have sex without thinking, "Lets make a baby"
I am talking about changing his mind 20 years later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
I've always said that if the man opted out of paying child support, then he should have absolutely nothing to do with the child. If he shows up at the childs 5th birthday with a present, call the cops because a stranger is at the house.
Nothing stops the man from filing lawsuits declaring he now wants to be daddy, not a "sperm donor"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
If, at 18 years old, the child wants to know their biological father, then thats up to them. You can't tell an adult who they can and can't talk to.
So, if he shows up at the child's 5th birthday party, it's a no-no, but barging into an 18th birthday party is okay? This is precisely what I am talking about. It's not an equivalent of a real abortion -- it's merely opting out of "financial responsibilities", while retaining the opportunity to be a parent. And no, I don't want to tell adults who they can or cannot talk to -- but if a man contacts his child when that child is 18, he should automatically become liable for 18 years of back child support, with interest. Because establishing contact with his child has the effect of undoing his "abortion". He also should be absolutely barred from inheriting from the child -- even if the child leaves him property in his will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Being illegal, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
So what's your point? That a woman has the option of committing an illegal act? That she has the option of simply giving the baby away even though it's illegal? In that case, men have options too. The man can murder the pregnant woman if he doesn't want the child. Hey, "being illegal, doesn't mean it doesn't happen". He can strap her down and forcibly abort the child himself. "Being illegal, doesn't mean it doesn't happen". Right? Either you acknowledge that men too have "options", if "options" are to include illegal acts, or you stop saying that women can unilaterally give their babies up for adoption when the law prohibits it.
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