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Old 06-17-2009, 05:02 PM
 
31 posts, read 140,685 times
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If there was such a thing as a perfect system of government or society wouldn't all of them be as good as the other. It is the human flaws that hijack any and all well planned society.

What would create success for any of the mentioned or tried societies and their governments is common goals and asparations of the people. Unfortunately that cannot and will not exist.

Lets take for example the USA and its ideas of democracy and capitalism. Democracy gives a type of majority rules, which works when everyone has common or similar ideals and goals i.e. our great prosperity stemming from our city on a hill complex. But that is quickly eroding and we are finding it difficult to navigate the complexities of balancing individual freedoms and societal cohesion. Who's rights are upheld when they infringe upoon an other.

Capitalism is a system based on greed, yet greed left unchecked and we all suffer the consequences. So a free market capitalist society is a fallacy, unless everybody is looking out for each other . It doesn't regulate it self it feeds off the weak and trusting and rewards the most cunning and devious.

Communism is basically in support of the greater good. But until we establish what that is good luck. It will be based off the musing of whoever is in power at the time.

I can think of no real solution to this and can only assume the best scenario is one in which the rules and laws ultimately balance out the human condition which as history has taught us eventually turns all good things to crap.
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Old 06-17-2009, 06:03 PM
 
197 posts, read 328,268 times
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Well, good ideas so far guys, and i think i have come up with a solution. Yes, ^^ it is all true, so what do we do, well i'm sure there is an overall opinion of what people would like. if we were to give every single person in the US one of five possible systems, i sure they would be able to find one in which they would be really happy. SO, at that point we divide up the nation into five sects and let them run themselves accordingly. We could still have cohesion between the different "states" by still having a central government that doesn't really have much power but just provides oversight....

See, the issue i see here in the US is that we are VERY similar, but VERY different. People are more alike than they want to give credit for, yet we disagree on some very minor things, so we live in a place that has a lot of people yet is very diverse for the most part, so how do you keep them happy with one system usually swaying in favor of one group or the other?
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Old 06-17-2009, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,653,762 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swansen View Post
SO, at that point we divide up the nation into five sects and let them run themselves accordingly. ?
That would make as much sense as having five different languages, with nobody bilingual. Unless you're talking about partition, with everybody moving to the part of the country that their sect controls.

I would suggest it would be better for the government to get out of all social regimentation, and restrict itself to a judiciary for violent criminals who harm other people, and regulatory statutes aimed at public safety, like driving on the right side of the road. No more restrictions on substances or sex, let people commit suicide if they want, etc. After about 20 years, the American people will have created the country they deserve, and the world can get on with its business.
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Old 06-17-2009, 08:33 PM
 
31 posts, read 140,685 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swansen View Post
Well, good ideas so far guys, and i think i have come up with a solution. Yes, ^^ it is all true, so what do we do, well i'm sure there is an overall opinion of what people would like. if we were to give every single person in the US one of five possible systems, i sure they would be able to find one in which they would be really happy. SO, at that point we divide up the nation into five sects and let them run themselves accordingly. We could still have cohesion between the different "states" by still having a central government that doesn't really have much power but just provides oversight....

See, the issue i see here in the US is that we are VERY similar, but VERY different. People are more alike than they want to give credit for, yet we disagree on some very minor things, so we live in a place that has a lot of people yet is very diverse for the most part, so how do you keep them happy with one system usually swaying in favor of one group or the other?

What if instead of 5 sects we go with fifty very diverse and different sates which govern themselves as its constituents see best and you get to move to which ever one suits you best. The federal government then only gets to set laws which pertain to national safety and texas when it tries to take over mexico or other surrounding states.
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Old 06-17-2009, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Monroe, Louisiana
887 posts, read 2,615,209 times
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I'm an anarchist at heart.. but I describe myself as a minarchist/Libertarian. Free markets lead to success.
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Old 06-17-2009, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Maine
898 posts, read 1,195,404 times
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Originally Posted by surfagoody View Post
What if instead of 5 sects we go with fifty very diverse and different sates which govern themselves as its constituents see best and you get to move to which ever one suits you best. The federal government then only gets to set laws which pertain to national safety and texas when it tries to take over mexico or other surrounding states.
Oh, you mean like it was originally set up? There's a novel idea.
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Old 06-17-2009, 11:07 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,087,877 times
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Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post

Government at the federal level would only exist for national security. State and local governments would be responsible for essentials like police, legal, infrastructure, etc.
This was tried once, it was called the Articles of Confederation.

Now after pointing out that little factoid, I would like to say that if it were at all possible I would love to see the havoc that unchecked multinationals would create given only meager and impossibly limited state resources.
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Old 06-17-2009, 11:51 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
33,962 posts, read 32,424,502 times
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A Democratic Republic based on rule of law, not rule of law whenever we feel like enforcing it or crazy interpretation of poorly written law or law nobody bothers to read before they pass it.
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:04 AM
 
846 posts, read 1,116,223 times
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Originally Posted by cleatis View Post
I would like to see what real comunism looks like. I'm not saying that's what I would support, I would justr like to see it in action (or lack thereof). Most of the countries that have tried it have modified it so that there is still an upper crust of fat cats.
That is real communism at work. The Soviet Uion was real communism at work. Communisn includes class seperation and state sponsered killing. There is no way around it.
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:09 AM
 
846 posts, read 1,116,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surfagoody View Post



Capitalism is a system based on greed, yet greed left unchecked and we all suffer the consequences. So a free market capitalist society is a fallacy, unless everybody is looking out for each other . It doesn't regulate it self it feeds off the weak and trusting and rewards the most cunning and devious.
Capitalism is not based on greed. Government is. And the capitalist cannot go unchecked without government support. It regulates itself. Actually, you regulate it. Only when a third party (government) involves itself does it fail. But then it is no longer capitalism if governemnt is involved.

Anarcho-Capitalism is clearly the best way. This has proved itself over and over for thousands of years. It's really not even debatable anymore.
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