U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-17-2009, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,371,245 times
Reputation: 4893

Advertisements

I'd have no problem paying extra for that product that is "Made in America"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-17-2009, 04:40 PM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,048,183 times
Reputation: 17978
Tradtional manufacturing such as assmbly line manufacturiong of low tech items is going away as a important part of industry.Mose and more companies in fact are supplying parts to toher cpountries than a finished product.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-17-2009, 05:24 PM
 
197 posts, read 328,056 times
Reputation: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
The number one reason why American labor and production is more expensive is the government, or more succinctly, the socialist government.

Every product and service sold in the USA (and exported), has a hidden socialist tax overhead attached to the retail price. (U.S. Constitution forbids export taxes, but no academic Economist will admit that socialist taxes are hidden in the retail price - where the customer pays all the taxes.)

Before I would wholeheartedly advocate "Buy American", I would preface that with "Shrink the government" and "Abolish Socialism".

Then equitable trade would restore America's prowess as a manufacturing powerhouse and technological innovator. It's common sense.

Ask yourself if a company that migrated overseas had the opportunity to operate its business without any tax liability in the USA, do you not think they'd repatriate?
In a heartbeat!

Stop taxing labor and production, lest we completely kill off the "golden goose".
No, i see you there, taxing labor is unconstitutional, but so in the income tax, those are entirely different cans of worms. Otherwise, i'm not really following you ?? We just need to stop allowing products to be shipped across an ocean, thats just ridiculous, how is that saving money?? I would be all for the abolition of free trade. While i do think we should still allow imports, we should definitely have a more aggressive stance as to what can be imported. To me, it just doesn't seem like any of our leadership has our economy in interest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJoey View Post
Why does everyone think that the US doesn't manufacture anything anymore?

We are still the global leader in manufacturing. We have just managed to be more productive and outsource lower end products overseas. Should we halt any progress in industrial manufacturing practices leading to greater productivity in order to maintain some extra line workers?
i haven't watched TV in two years now... i don't get any of my information from the mass media. For this topic right here... its obvious, in MI we manufacture, thats what we do. Michigan think tank says manufacturing will never return and the state must re-think its future. - Free Online Library (http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Michigan+think+tank+says+manufacturing+will+never+ return+and+the...-a0198809475 - broken link) Everying is being shipped overseas, i honestly cannot remember when the last time i picked something up and it said made in the USA. Yes, i understand many things are produced by robotic assembly lines, and we do not need people to do menial tasks all day, HOWEVER, i follow what JT has said. As long as we have the mentality well..
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
As long as we are philosophically committed to the over-riding and single-minded principle that Everybody Must Work, then Yes, that is exactly the course that is consistent with our core principle.
we need all we can get.

Really though, and this is especially apparent right now, and is not going anywhere, but we have a real problem. There isn't really any straight path to economic recovery, so in the meantime, an extreme amount of people simply cannot be hired because there is just no place to hire them to. Even if every single person in the nation all of a sudden re trained, there still wouldn't be enough work for everyone. In MI, unemployment is up to 1 in every 8 people (may be off slightly, but its staggering) I mean, what do you do with all of us??
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-17-2009, 07:57 PM
 
Location: San Diego
2,311 posts, read 2,456,600 times
Reputation: 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swansen View Post
i haven't watched TV in two years now... i don't get any of my information from the mass media. For this topic right here... its obvious, in MI we manufacture, thats what we do. Michigan think tank says manufacturing will never return and the state must re-think its future. - Free Online Library (http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Michigan+think+tank+says+manufacturing+will+never+ return+and+the...-a0198809475 - broken link) Everying is being shipped overseas, i honestly cannot remember when the last time i picked something up and it said made in the USA. Yes, i understand many things are produced by robotic assembly lines, and we do not need people to do menial tasks all day, HOWEVER, i follow what JT has said. As long as we have the mentality well.. we need all we can get.
I guess I interpreted your link differently. What I read was an article that states how Michigan will never regain the low skill poor paying factory jobs. The article also compares Michigan to places like Minnesota where the population has higher incomes and lower unemployment due to their education and lack of reliance on jobs that aren't economically viable.

I don't see how we can try to revert to jobs that require low skill and education levels and expect to maintain the standard of living that previous generations of Americans have had. That boat set sail a long time ago and it was pretty obvious to anyone who was paying attention. If we go back to line workers at can factories there wont be much left of our economy.

And don't misinterpret this as being anti-american or whatever. I would love to have a sustainable american supply chain but most of what I would consume would like to be produced, packaged, and distributed by mechanical devices.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2009, 05:37 AM
 
Location: Cold Frozen North
1,928 posts, read 4,523,292 times
Reputation: 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
I'd have no problem paying extra for that product that is "Made in America"
Same here. I look for a Made in America label. I despise sending any more money to china.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2009, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,118 posts, read 9,208,003 times
Reputation: 8988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swansen View Post
We just need to stop allowing products to be shipped across an ocean, thats just ridiculous, how is that saving money?? I would be all for the abolition of free trade.
1. All taxes levied on labor and production migrate to the retail price - where the consumer pays all the taxes. Where else do companies get the money to pay their taxes?

2. All American products and services sold, have a hidden tax in the retail price, making them more expensive. (Constitution forbids export taxes, too)

3. Imports that do not have hidden tax inflation appear cheaper than American products. (ex: VAT taxes are refunded on exports.)

4. Abolishing all shiftable taxes (socialist Income tax, etc) would eliminate the indirect subsidy of foreign imports, and make American exports more attractive. (By some estimates, there would be a 70% price reduction)

5. Reducing the bloated Federal government, by ending national socialism, would also reduce the tax load imposed on imports, so it wouldn't impair international trade.

I hope that helps clarify things.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-19-2009, 08:13 PM
 
5,532 posts, read 5,717,008 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJoey View Post
Why does everyone think that the US doesn't manufacture anything anymore?

We are still the global leader in manufacturing
Such as? In what fields is the US a "leader" in manufacturing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sike0000 View Post
We still manufacturer lots of things. I think it's the high labor items that gets sent overseas.
Not really. Almost no distinction between human labour and machine made.
Quote:
Just remember that what you are really saving on by outsourcing is the labor costs. Throw shipping in there, plus a major learning curve, different to non-existent equipment, and you might as well keep it here I have been dealing with this for years now. The company has us research the savings to send something to a low cost area. Huge savings in labor, but everything else eats it up.
Larger companies have it easier because they can float the cash for the factories, training and can wait for their investment to pay off.
There are areas in the US with labor costs equivalent to Mexico.
That is correct, but most companies outsource because everyone else is doing it, regardless of real costs. If you are going to still manufacture in the US while most competitors are outsourcing, wall street analysts will hammer you down. In business there are a couple of trend setters (industry leaders), everyone else simply follows trough. As you correctly say, these leaders tend to be global corporations and everything is easier for them. There is also a practical aspect - in many fields all manufacturers are gone, so even if you want to go "American", there is nobody left. For example, out of thousands of shoemakers 100 years ago, we are left with only two. If you are a designer who needs to commission a new line to an US contractor, there is nobody to do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
There are a number of categories of products that are virtually never made in the USA. One is after-market auto parts. Another is clothing. If you want Made In USA clothing, you have to pay L L Bean prices. There is one textile product that is still made in USA---bath towels. How hard is it to make a bath towel?
Most LL Bean products are outsourced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
4. Abolishing all shiftable taxes (socialist Income tax, etc) would eliminate the indirect subsidy of foreign imports, and make American exports more attractive. (By some estimates, there would be a 70% price reduction)
BS. Even if there is a reduction in manufacturing costs, it may never be reflected in consumer prices. Businesses are happy to keep prices high as long as possible, regardless of their true cost. Prices go down only when consumers refuse to pay more.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-19-2009, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,111 posts, read 4,865,873 times
Reputation: 2419
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJoey View Post
Why does everyone think that the US doesn't manufacture anything anymore?

We are still the global leader in manufacturing. We have just managed to be more productive and outsource lower end products overseas. Should we halt any progress in industrial manufacturing practices leading to greater productivity in order to maintain some extra line workers?


One of my favorite programs is "How It's Made" on the Discovery Science channel. It illustrates how you run a sucessful manufacturing business in a high cost labor nation like the USA. You build the automation to do the manufacturing with out human hands and have factories that may only need 10-20% of the previous labor force. Then you have China-level labor costs and can meet the Chinese pricing head on. Most of the USA's job losses actually result from this process re-engineering not out sourcing or off shoring. In this 21st century manufacturing you need workers who would in the past been called engineers or IT workers. Detroit in the 1970s employed over a million workers but faced Japanese competition that on average 75% fewer workers because robots were used for most assembly operations. The robots gave a company like Toyota a huge price advantage and a superior product because once you tune-up the system the robots don't get tired or play around on the assembly line and give you better fit and finish. GM, Ford and Chrystler had to get rid or over half a million workers and buy robots often from Japan just to get back in the game in the 1980s. This is why Detroit has so many retirees.
We don't need the number of workers needed to make a US car in the 1950s 0r 60s. This is basically true in nearly all USA industries that can automate production. In other industries where automation is hard like sewing textiles or in labor intensive low value products like toys you are stuck with the labor and its cost. This is the kind of industry that goes to a place like China, Mexico or Bangladesh. These examples of how business responds to technology and labor costs is something political economists have been studying since the 19th century when Karl Marx did his literature research in the British National Library in the 1850s.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-19-2009, 10:31 PM
 
19,081 posts, read 21,202,214 times
Reputation: 13392
Well stated, mwruckman. I think it's unlikely that unskilled manufacturing labor will come back to the US. Imo, our populace should focus on skilled labor- technology, medicine, science, progressive industry, etc. There's also service, where we could exercise more control. On that end, we should expect to pay more for service. A tight thumb would need to be on immigration, though, which is probably a pipe dream.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-19-2009, 10:37 PM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,048,183 times
Reputation: 17978
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPlainsDrifter73 View Post
Same here. I look for a Made in America label. I despise sending any more money to china.

Do you also vopte to stop sending billions each year to foreign countries for the massive amounts of oil and natrual gas, If noit tehn you can save your jobs worries and stop buying gas and other patroleum products because they make up a good per centage of even american made goods and the nergy to produce them.Anyhting plastic in your house or american car;have shingles on yopur house? just two of milions of products foreign you support at teh cost of paying off the nation debt in just a few years even with teh expansion of the debt.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top