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Old 06-20-2009, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,386,888 times
Reputation: 4893

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
That could easily be expanded to 30 years, with such an incentive to properly maintain cars to increase their useful life. Then, in the year 2039, the national economy can be re-examined to see if there is a need for any more cars at that time. Total out of pocket savings for consumers = 4-trillion dollars.
Ah, but as a consumer, I don't want a 20 / 25 year old car. And while YOU may not want a new / newer automobile, you are far and away, the exception to the rule.

Personally, I prefer the car I purchased where I have NO MAINTENANCE expense whatsoever for 4 or 5 years. The only expense I have is gas and insurance.

After that period of time, I turn it in, get another new one and hit "repeat"
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Old 06-20-2009, 08:59 PM
 
Location: Cold Frozen North
1,928 posts, read 4,525,715 times
Reputation: 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
Do you also vopte to stop sending billions each year to foreign countries for the massive amounts of oil and natrual gas, If noit tehn you can save your jobs worries and stop buying gas and other patroleum products because they make up a good per centage of even american made goods and the nergy to produce them.Anyhting plastic in your house or american car;have shingles on yopur house? just two of milions of products foreign you support at teh cost of paying off the nation debt in just a few years even with teh expansion of the debt.
It would be a lot easier for us to bring manufacturing back as opposed to getting all of our oil needs domestically. There's only so much oil under our land. We've exhausted quite a bit of it. It's not possible for us to completely do without imports, but we can do a lot better than we are doing now.
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Old 06-21-2009, 08:11 AM
 
Location: San Diego
2,311 posts, read 2,457,631 times
Reputation: 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
The statement that "You can go buy a Subaru that was made in Indiana by americans, or a hyundai designed in California and assembled in Arkansas, or toyotas or hondas"

They are assembled by Americans, with "60% local content" (yeah, right) but most of the profit is leaving the shore.

And most of the profits come back to US companies that manufacture overseas.



I didn't mention Nikes.
However, Endicott, NY once was the home of Endicott - Johnson shoe company. And thanks to national socialism, that industry was pretty much wiped out.

Socialism? More then likely a poor business model is at fault.



What's your point?
That we're better off scratching each other's back in a service economy instead of producing our necessities?

Are we better off making stuff for each other and deserting our service industry? This thread is about how the US will fail w/o a manufacturing base right? I brought up several industries that still manufacture in the US. You still haven't responded with any information that suggests my originaql premise isn't true.

Personally I think depending on either a low level manufacturing or a service industry isn't our path to success. Start a new thread on that if you really want to rant about how we are national socialists though since your arguement is pointless here.



"IP rights"?
"Cogs in the industrial wheel"?

Those who own the knowledge will make money by exploiting those that dont. We have been pretty successful being the owners of IP rights. I can personally attest to becoming wealthy based on intellectual property. The potential to generate wealth from innovative pursuits is the cornerstone to our capitalistic market right?


You are missing the point. Thanks to automation, technology, tools and mass production, we can multiply the labor of a worker. So why do we have to work so much more to make ends meet?
Why aren't we enjoying the benefits of our vastly amplified labor?

Answer: the parasites of socialist bureaucracy, drones, paper pushers, administrative overhead, and so on, are diluting the prosperity that we should be enjoying.

Remember, prosperity is not measured in money tokens. Prosperity is based on the creation and trade of usable surplus goods and services, and the time to enjoy same.

But when you have a system that rewards consumption and penalizes production, you kill the "golden goose".
I'm really confused. Are you not proposing socialistic ideals? Monetary systems are bad, but normalized trade commodities are alright?
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Old 06-21-2009, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,638,476 times
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I think the mods ought to impose a rule that every poster who uses the word "socialism" must append to the post the defintion of socialism, which is:

a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

So people cannot keep on referring to national socialism as the reason why a shoe factory has shut down, nor to blame 'national socialism' for any other event in the history of the USA, which is probably the least socoialist nation on the planet.

Sadly, somebody in the 70's coined the phrase "Corporate Socialism", to describe the distribution of our national wealth to a few large military-industrial corporations, paralleling the socialist concept of distributing the wealth to the PEOPLE. Which are diametrically opposite concepts, except that the two shared one thing in common: both involved the passing of national wealth at government behest. But the test of socialism is met only by passing the wealth to the people (which is why it is called socialism), and not the exact opposite, which is what many posters here wrongly use the word 'socialism' to describe.

Last edited by jtur88; 06-21-2009 at 09:02 AM..
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Old 06-21-2009, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Orlando, Florida
43,858 posts, read 43,592,994 times
Reputation: 58603
When people get their expectations of what they actually need to be happy in order and want a job badly enough.....then they will be willing to put a nut in a bolt for less than $32.00 an hour. This is when manufacturing jobs will once again thrive in America.
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Old 06-22-2009, 03:35 PM
 
5,532 posts, read 5,722,679 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GloryB View Post
When people get their expectations of what they actually need to be happy in order and want a job badly enough.....then they will be willing to put a nut in a bolt for less than $32.00 an hour. This is when manufacturing jobs will once again thrive in America.
American workers will be more then happy to put a nut and bolt for much less then $32 an hour when:
1) Apartment rent will be $250 a month
2) Medial insurance will cover the whole family for $150
3) College tuition <$1000 a year
4) Public transportation will cover all areas and be accessible for $0.25
5) And $5 will put a good meal on the table for the whole family. Then, US workers will be satisfied with much less, exactly like their peers in China and India.
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Old 06-22-2009, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Cold Frozen North
1,928 posts, read 4,525,715 times
Reputation: 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by oberon_1 View Post
American workers will be more then happy to put a nut and bolt for much less then $32 an hour when:
1) Apartment rent will be $250 a month
2) Medial insurance will cover the whole family for $150
3) College tuition <$1000 a year
4) Public transportation will cover all areas and be accessible for $0.25
5) And $5 will put a good meal on the table for the whole family. Then, US workers will be satisfied with much less, exactly like their peers in China and India.
Excellent post oberon_1. You can't pay first world bills with third world paychecks.
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Old 06-22-2009, 08:51 PM
 
5,532 posts, read 5,722,679 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPlainsDrifter73 View Post
Excellent post oberon_1. You can't pay first world bills with third world paychecks.
Some people do not understand that American workers live in the US, not in China.
On another hand, there are other "economists" in this country, who entertain the idea of having a society divided in two - a smaller group of billionaires and trillionairs vs a large population in very deep poverty. (Picture some African and South American societies).
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Old 06-23-2009, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,136 posts, read 9,219,999 times
Reputation: 8990
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJoey View Post
I'm really confused. Are you not proposing socialistic ideals? Monetary systems are bad, but normalized trade commodities are alright?
I agree. You are confused.

In a nutshell, socialism / piracy eradicates private property ownership (absolute ownership by individuals) and replaces it with collective ownership (with the State / Collective holding a superior claim).

If a duly enrolled and enumerated American socialist fails to pay his socialist taxes, the State takes his property from him - or worse - incarcerates him for his "criminal" failure.

Since 1935, incremental Socialism has killed off or driven away production industries, and the jobs they once offered. Each expansion of socialist "benefits" (legislated thievery), took more from the workers paying the taxes.

Thus the non-productive beneficiaries are rewarded, and the productive people are penalized.

The growth in government administrative overhead plays a role in dragging down producers, too. Even though the socialist bureaucracy pays taxes, with wages paid by taxes, it's like a snake eating its own tail. The more the bureaucracy grows, the shorter the snake gets.

The remedy will require eradication of national socialism and all programs created under the aegis of FICA / Socialist InSecurity Act of 1935.

All taxes on production and labor must be abolished. All rewards for consumption and parasitism must be abolished. Otherwise, the parasitic load will kill the host. And that won't be good for either group.
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Old 06-23-2009, 10:38 PM
 
Location: Rochester, NY
1,293 posts, read 4,204,062 times
Reputation: 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by oberon_1 View Post
American workers will be more then happy to put a nut and bolt for much less then $32 an hour when:
1) Apartment rent will be $250 a month
2) Medial insurance will cover the whole family for $150
3) College tuition <$1000 a year
4) Public transportation will cover all areas and be accessible for $0.25
5) And $5 will put a good meal on the table for the whole family. Then, US workers will be satisfied with much less, exactly like their peers in China and India.
Americans screwing bolts in do not need to make $32 and hour. This is an entry level job that anyone can do. The person living on lower wages need to adjust their life style so that he/she may be afford to eat and sleep. Why would you start a family which you cannot afford? An entry level job needs entry level pay, not $32 an hour which a college graduate should be making.

As far as manufacturing goes, I think alot of it is leaving. The cost to manufacture a good in the US as well as consumer demand for lower prices is driving it away. But at the same time, do we really want to go back to dirty industry? Shouldn't we strive for something like the growing biomedical fields that pay high wages because less people are qualified to do the job at the required quality level? A better education should justify these higher paying jobs, not someone with a highschool diploma or GED.
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