U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-30-2009, 09:21 PM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,113,623 times
Reputation: 17978

Advertisements

Our corporate taxes are the second highest in the world.Prices sell all over the world. The laboe market in teh US just can not compete basically on screwdriver manufacturing any more.The big three making vehicle here and toyota and Honda are a good example.The governamnt first tried to limit imports then the companies move here and still out sold. It wasn't price that sold toyotas and hondas;it was better quality;plain and simple made by american workers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-02-2009, 10:01 AM
 
Location: The Woods
16,457 posts, read 21,491,210 times
Reputation: 8412
Until we end the free trade fiasco, which does nothing but enriches those at the top, and protect our own manufacturing, we will continue to lose our manufacturing and become more dependant upon the third world. Which is not only bad economically but bad for national security. We also need to stop the government meddling that serves special interest groups like environmentalists which kills our economy. Whether it's logging, mining or even farming...there are groups that wish to shut it down. They have in many areas achieved their goals. As a result...tropical wood from South America is cheaper than American hardwoods (because of restrictions on logging, free trade wiping out our sawmills, etc.), we are becoming a net importer of food (from the third world)...and so forth. America is sliding into a toilet and American stupidity is to blame. Stupidly, Americans have allowed their "leaders" to sell out their country, to enrich themselves.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-02-2009, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Bothell, Washington
2,680 posts, read 4,464,577 times
Reputation: 3622
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
The number one reason why American labor and production is more expensive is the government, or more succinctly, the socialist government.

Every product and service sold in the USA (and exported), has a hidden socialist tax overhead attached to the retail price. (U.S. Constitution forbids export taxes, but no academic Economist will admit that socialist taxes are hidden in the retail price - where the customer pays all the taxes.)

Before I would wholeheartedly advocate "Buy American", I would preface that with "Shrink the government" and "Abolish Socialism".

Then equitable trade would restore America's prowess as a manufacturing powerhouse and technological innovator. It's common sense.

Ask yourself if a company that migrated overseas had the opportunity to operate its business without any tax liability in the USA, do you not think they'd repatriate?
In a heartbeat!

Stop taxing labor and production, lest we completely kill off the "golden goose".
This is not really true. I mean, you are correct in the fact that there are taxes on these businesses here in the states- but the other bigger factor is simply that people in the 3rd world countries earn far, far, less because cost of living is less- and so those companies don't have to pay as high of wages. Taxes and medical benefits aside, if a company is paying someone $15 per hour here in the states to work on an assembly line screwing objects together all day, and they can get the same work done in Thailand or Vietnam for $1 or $2 per hour, that is the biggest factor for moving. So I wouldn't blame this on govt. and taxes, it is just simply that we are a first world country that is expensive to live in- expensive housing, food, cars, utilities, etc- so there is NO WAY we could be competetive on an even playing field with the 3rd world countries. And those places now such as China that are getting all of the manufacturing jobs- when their standard of living rises as they someday move into first world status- and it costs the same to live there as it does here or in Japan or Europe, of course those manufacturing jobs are then going to move again to poorer places- no matter how much or how little the Chinese government is taxing those businesses.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2009, 10:40 PM
 
44,662 posts, read 43,174,514 times
Reputation: 14416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swansen View Post
I really don't want to believe it. I'm not saying blue collar workers/line workers deserve dirt, because they don't, but you have to be competitive, especially in this global manufacturing market. At some point the standard for line work will increase again once the world catches up, but in the meantime you have to be competitive. I have seen it mentioned that plants have popped up in the south were workers generally earn much less, but still are able to live comfortably, i think their example should be followed.

Here is my viewpoint/idea, if we really want to bring our economy back we need to buy american. Yes, buying only American will be more expensive in any circumstance, but it would be worth it in every aspect. From what i understand the Canadians do fairly well with this, and part of the reason why things are more expensive there. That said, theoretical point. While we are waiting for the rest of the world to catch up we should just buck up and take the pay cuts to become competitive. If you are happy with said modest lifestyle then great, but for many it would be a great opportunity for debt-less advancement per say. Many young people who graduate from high school have no way of paying for higher education and are fiscally responsible enough to realize that taking out a huge loan is not always a very good idea to pay for school. So working for any given plant and going to school for how ever many years would be a great way to achieve this. I'm planning on doing some sort of blue collar/physical labor as long as i need to in order to pay for my school/life in the meantime. If there was a plant nearby that i could work for in the meantime i would.

Thoughts??
This is how I see it. Even American manufacturers can send factories offshore for cheaper labor costs. I think there needs to be a new class of businessman who is loyal to the worker and the customer first. How can you buy things made in America if it's manufactured somewhere else? What needs to be done is to make it very expensive to outsource jobs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2009, 05:52 AM
 
Location: Cold Frozen North
1,928 posts, read 4,525,715 times
Reputation: 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
This is how I see it. Even American manufacturers can send factories offshore for cheaper labor costs. I think there needs to be a new class of businessman who is loyal to the worker and the customer first. How can you buy things made in America if it's manufactured somewhere else? What needs to be done is to make it very expensive to outsource jobs.
I definitely agree with your last statement. Make it expensive and remove the incentive to send jobs offshore. We could so easily slap tariffs on this cheap junk. Most of federal governments revenue used to be from tariffs before the federal income tax.

America was a lot better country before all the manufacturing jobs left. Now it's a race to the bottom. This can't possibly end well for the middle class.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2009, 06:04 AM
 
6,745 posts, read 8,079,183 times
Reputation: 1846
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
The number one reason why American labor and production is more expensive is the government, or more succinctly, the socialist government.

Every product and service sold in the USA (and exported), has a hidden socialist tax overhead attached to the retail price. (U.S. Constitution forbids export taxes, but no academic Economist will admit that socialist taxes are hidden in the retail price - where the customer pays all the taxes.)

Before I would wholeheartedly advocate "Buy American", I would preface that with "Shrink the government" and "Abolish Socialism".

Then equitable trade would restore America's prowess as a manufacturing powerhouse and technological innovator. It's common sense.

Ask yourself if a company that migrated overseas had the opportunity to operate its business without any tax liability in the USA, do you not think they'd repatriate?
In a heartbeat!

Stop taxing labor and production, lest we completely kill off the "golden goose".
Corporate taxes are not the #1 worry when competing with companies who manufacture off-shore. Our corporate taxes are slightly higher. It's wages and benefits that has made American manufacturing obsolete.

What' do you think will lead to more profit? Paying $20/hour + 300/mth for health insurance. Or $2/hour and $0/mth for health insurance because they have universal health coverage? As a manufacturer, I'll take the latter.

It's wages and health insurance that are crushing American manufacturing.

Last edited by ozzie679; 07-09-2009 at 06:12 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2009, 06:06 AM
 
Location: The Milky Way Galaxy
2,256 posts, read 5,909,546 times
Reputation: 1505
Yup agreed...it all comes down to money... everything offshore being made much more cheaply than here in America. If you're a business owner you're goal is usually be the most profitable you can which usually involves keeping your expenses down as low as possible while putting out a decent quality product.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-15-2009, 09:04 AM
 
197 posts, read 328,221 times
Reputation: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunluvver2 View Post
Our education system is NOT turning out the type of workers that are needed to keep a manufacturing economy going.

We have been turning out Politically Correct social workers, lawyers and teachers by the boat load but our engineers and scientists are outnumbered by the Chinese and Indian students. Hopefully we can keep enough of these brilliant students here to help rebuild the United States industrial base but as long as we keep turning out more Lawyers, Social Workers etc that will fight them tooth and toenail we will keep declining.

GL2
Oh yes... but the US is a big place, not everystate, or even county has the same educational program, like i know in Texas they push the crap out of their kids, but i also understand its to make a boat load of doctors... and a lot of kids with more unfortunate circumstances don't graduate, like a lot. There are MUCH better educational systems around the world, only one i really know of is Switzerlands, which is pretty impressive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
work ethic is gone, and we have almost unlimited credit. there is no free trade just dumping here on credit (look at the trade deficiit). that will come to an end. then we will go back to work. only people i see here willing to do work are mexican people. i see posts contradicting this but i am not seeing it in my community.
The US is a REALLY big place and very diverse, just from traveling around the states its amazing how different people are just from state to state. We are all very productive in the town i live in, lots and lots of small business, but most are lower middle class or lower class.... I honestly don't know where it come from the "all Americans are lazy thing".

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
The proponents of the flat sales tax trot out numbers like 17% would be enough. What they fail to account for is the massive deflation that will follow the repeal of income tax (if it happens). My simulations show a decrease on the order of 60 - 80% deflation, as the income tax inflation drains from the economy. With a GDP reduced by 2/3rds or more, the 17% will be inadequate to fund the budget. Believe it or not, the first year sales tax would have to be on the order of 50% to cover the bills. (That's equivalent to a 33% income tax rate).
Interesting, i've been in i've been in favor of a flat tax for a good while now, but i guess i still some reading to do, ether way, i still think it is a much better system.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-15-2009, 09:42 AM
 
16,301 posts, read 24,254,280 times
Reputation: 8261
When the US completes the transition to a 3rd world country, manufacturing will return. We can then make lead tainted toys and export them to China.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-15-2009, 12:47 PM
 
44,662 posts, read 43,174,514 times
Reputation: 14416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
When the US completes the transition to a 3rd world country, manufacturing will return. We can then make lead tainted toys and export them to China.
Why not just start new factories?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top