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I think that the O.P. is suggesting that there is more racism expressed on the internet (recently) than what they see in real life. And if so, then I feel that there is actually the same amount of racism as there always has been, and the same amount on the internet as there is in real life.
Much of what is expressed in these racial threads are no different from what is usually said just between family members and close friends expressed in confidence. And especially between close friends of difference races. And these are honest expressions of opinion that aren't considered politically correct and would be unwise if stated in public.
What I see is that these non-PC statements in both real life and on the internet are vehemently objected to by members of the racial group being discussed, but if that same discussion is between members of only that racial group, then they are in agreement and there is no heat generated. In other words, it's not okay for non-blacks to speak ill of black people, but it's alright for a black person to make those same observations about their own kind. I see this double standard all of the time here on C-D.
On the internet in these forums, we are protected by our anonymity so these politically incorrect opinions are able to come out without fear of retribution. I've never objected to any post that I thought sexist or that was negative against my race or political or spiritual leanings. I feel that the opinions expressed on C-D are a fairly good representation of what other people are thinking. It's good to know what other opinions different from mine are out there and I don't let them offend me personally. Reading and posting on these internet forums is good way of giving and getting feedback between large groups of disparate people in a very real time way.
I think that we will always have frictions between different groups of people, whether it's because of their different race, culture or religion. It's both human and animal nature to be initially suspicious and/or competitive with people that are dissimilar in some way to us. Even within the same race, there are frictions between the sexes, age and socio-economic groups. And since ancient times, when one tribe or group fought and conquered the other one. there was a tendency for the conquering group to take the other group's women along with material things of value.
There will be less frictions in situations where the economy is good and the majority of people are doing well. There will always be some that are poorer, whether by bad luck, bad decision making or just a general lack of ambition. It's just the way of the world. Right now, with the world economy being poor, there is the added stressor of human overpopulation and there being a lot of people struggling to make ends meet. There just isn't enough (good) jobs to go around for those willing to work. And another aspect is people trying to live beyond their means, particularly in the US. As a whole, we've just gotten too materialistic.
I am aware that racism is still quite pervasive in the U.S. Yet, there just seems to be this burgeoning racial tension, as well as this burgeoning expression of racism among some people. Of course, it is not manifested in its typical form. That is, it is not overtly manifested. Rather, its manifestation seems to have erupted on the internet. City Data is one example of this.
There are many contentious threads on “race” issues, and other threads that are only peripherally race-related, yet turn into contentious race issues. I am not surprised by the level of discussion in these threads. And, I believe that these threads serve as a “safe” way for some people to express their racist viewpoints. Whether people are upset that Obama is president, that Sotomayor will go through a nomination, that Michael Jackson has gotten too much press coverage, that the Williams sisters dominate tennis, that CNN will have a Race in America PT 2, ad infinitum – it just seems that the internet now serves as the predominate (and safe) way for some to express this racial frustration.
What do others think about this?
Truth be told...if you look around the threads your examples are pretty one-sided. I'm more used to seeing racist comments along the lines of:
-Republicans oppose Sotomayor because she isn't white. They'd oppose anyone nominated by Obama.
-Michael Jackson is being unfairly treated because he's black and they never mention drug problems etc. with other famous dead people. (ahem...elvis)
Pretty much, based upon polls I have seen and my own experiences the most racist stuff I hear is from minorities vs. other minorities or OLDER white people.
You're right. The anonymity does make it easier for people to express their true attitudes, feelings, and beliefs. Once they are put out there, they are there for others to challenge critically.
I used to be a university professor. And, one of the classes that I used to teach focused on race issues. In that class, it was ideal for students to honestly express their feelings, because that became an opportunity for them and others to learn. This learning opportunity is their for everyone, even in everyday conversations.
I do not think that their is anything that I have mentioned on CD that I wouldn't readily discuss with anyone face to face, be that a same-race or mixed race group. I wonder if others would feel equally comfortable discussing their comments face to face with a mixed race group. When you speak face to face, it becomes a forum where challenges to your points of view can serve as a learning tool -- a learning tool where you can grow. Although the internet can serve that function too, I fear that the anonymity just allows people to spew hate, not with the intention of learning or helping others see another point of view, but simple just to spew hate.
Interesting you mention a university class. I am currently taking a sociology class. Many of the people in my class seem to be rather quiet about certain things. It is an opportunity to bring things up and discuss things, but for some reason, I am usually the one making many of the comments, or a few others in my class. It is almost like no one wants to talk about certain issues, particularly race. Some people will come out and discuss things. That class gave me a chance to say many things that I feel that would otherwise not be discussed. I think it is a matter of "we won't agree, so we won't say anything because a fight will start".
Mui, if that's what you hear in conversation with close friends, well, bless your heart!
Off to redefine "secular humanist"
eta: tsk, tsk. It just occurred to me that folks like me aren't really fully human, so the definition is safe! Whew!
I think that the O.P. is suggesting that there is more racism expressed on the internet (recently) than what they see in real life. And if so, then I feel that there is actually the same amount of racism as there always has been, and the same amount on the internet as there is in real life.
Much of what is expressed in these racial threads are no different from what is usually said just between family members and close friends expressed in confidence. And especially between close friends of difference races. And these are honest expressions of opinion that aren't considered politically correct and would be unwise if stated in public.
What I see is that these non-PC statements in both real life and on the internet are vehemently objected to by members of the racial group being discussed, but if that same discussion is between members of only that racial group, then they are in agreement and there is no heat generated. In other words, it's not okay for non-blacks to speak ill of black people, but it's alright for a black person to make those same observations about their own kind. I see this double standard all of the time here on C-D.
On the internet in these forums, we are protected by our anonymity so these politically incorrect opinions are able to come out without fear of retribution. I've never objected to any post that I thought sexist or that was negative against my race or political or spiritual leanings. I feel that the opinions expressed on C-D are a fairly good representation of what other people are thinking. It's good to know what other opinions different from mine are out there and I don't let them offend me personally. Reading and posting on these internet forums is good way of giving and getting feedback between large groups of disparate people in a very real time way.
I think that we will always have frictions between different groups of people, whether it's because of their different race, culture or religion. It's both human and animal nature to be initially suspicious and/or competitive with people that are dissimilar in some way to us. Even within the same race, there are frictions between the sexes, age and socio-economic groups. And since ancient times, when one tribe or group fought and conquered the other one. there was a tendency for the conquering group to take the other group's women along with material things of value.
There will be less frictions in situations where the economy is good and the majority of people are doing well. There will always be some that are poorer, whether by bad luck, bad decision making or just a general lack of ambition. It's just the way of the world. Right now, with the world economy being poor, there is the added stressor of human overpopulation and there being a lot of people struggling to make ends meet. There just isn't enough (good) jobs to go around for those willing to work. And another aspect is people trying to live beyond their means, particularly in the US. As a whole, we've just gotten too materialistic.
I can explain that. Many blacks feel offended when someone who isn't black makes comments vs if it were coming from someone who is black. Why? Many blacks feel that people who aren't black couldn't understand what blacks go through and feel as if the only reasons such comments would ever be made was to A)Insult blacks
B)Use such information against blacks
C)Out of anger
If it comes from another black person, most blacks would feel like that black person is saying that out of concern and frustration for the black community.
One reason I can think for the rise of racism on the internet is that it is easier to type out what many people really think, rather than to say it in public. On this forum, racial slurs are not allowed to be used, but sometimes you can tell if a person is racist if you read between the lines. The internet is becoming a medium for such feelings because nowadays if you said this out loud, you would get called out. If used on the internet(in most cases), there is pretty a free for all.
One reason I can think for the rise of racism on the internet is that it is easier to type out what many people really think, rather than to say it in public. On this forum, racial slurs are not allowed to be used, but sometimes you can tell if a person is racist if you read between the lines. The internet is becoming a medium for such feelings because nowadays if you said this out loud, you would get called out. If used on the internet(in most cases), there is pretty a free for all.
I agree with you and others that expressed similar sentiments. It was mentioned by another poster that many of the comments stated on CD are also stated among family members and close friends. For me, that is not surpising because people have a level of trust and rapport with family members and close friends -- and oftentimes, similar viewpoints. Moreover, these groups do not typically challenge (in a vigorous way) the viewpoints they hear expressed by the person.
I contend that many people do not have as much courage to express these viewpoints to a group of strangers (especially a mixed-race group). Strangers would challenge these statements in a more critical manner. And, the person expressing these viewpoints may become a bit uncomfortable. This level of discomfort can become a learning moment -- a learning moment for the person expressing such viewpoints, as well as for other members in the group. In part, that is the power of having such a dialogue face-to-face.
The internet, in my opinion, does not elicit this kind of learning moment. It typically does not cause one to become uncomfortable to the point where s/he actually "hears" the other perspective. Rather, it is just a venue for people to express their viewpoints on race (as honestly as they can), and for other people to rebut that position. This is not so much a dialogue (or "great debate") as it is a battle. When discussions about race-related issues become battles, then people become more entrenched in their current viewpoints, not less.
Another poster mentioned that it is good that we all have a venue to honestly discuss race-related issue. From their perspective, the internet serves as this venue. I, for one, absolutely love discussing the issue of race. I have been doing if for most of my life. It's fun! Yet, it seems important to mention that not all discussions about race-related issues are productive. In fact, some are counter-productive - and some downright toxic. Such discussions only perpetuate racial tension and racism. In my opinion, internet discussions can too easily fall into this trap.
In my original post, I mentioned that racism has erupted on the internet. I want to clarify this statement. I am aware that racist sentiments have existed for quite some time. Many people are aware of this. Yet, many people are just becoming aware of forums like CD. Because the internet provides anonymity, because it provides a level of safety -- more importantly, because it provides a level of comfort, more people will continue to use it to express their viewpoints on race-related issues. So, I guess that I overstated it when I said that this kind of discussion has erupted on the internet. However, it definitely is burgeoning.
Finally, Pirate_lafitte, it is important for me to mention that these comments are not directed at you. Rather, they are comments that I am making, in general. I liked the comments that you made in your posting. Thus, they became a spring-board for my diatribe. Please know that I mean no offense.
In the old days, cowards would hide behind a sheet and a pointy hat...today they hide behind a screen name and keyboard.
The internet is a great anonymous tool for those who are powerless in real life and resent the achievements of those who don't look like them. Its sad, really.
To the OP: I tend to not get involved in the race discussions because they seem to always go around and around. That being said, the trash talk that is spewed on CD comes from all sides. I have read tons of black/mixed race negative comments towards white people AND vice versa. These conversations seem to never go anywhere other than posters furious and angry.
On that note, at least there is a conversation going. I know it may not be much of a dialouge, but at least it's something. And sometimes, this is the way people work things out. In relationships, people fight. Why should relationships between races be any different? There are things that I am not going to understand about black people. Oh well. I can try, but trying does not always equal success. And of course this works in the opposite as well. There are things about white people, that black people will not understand. Oh well.
All I really care about on a forum like CD is that people are respectful. I don't care if you are a member of the KKK, when you get on this forum and decide to post, you should do so in a manner that is still respectful of others.
I don't see it. At least its not to any significant degree and certainly it isn't growing. If anything we're seeing less of it which is good.
But hate is growing, class warfare, political extremism, just not race or religious hate. That's not good.
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They'd oppose anyone nominated by Obama. 
Yet, it seems important to mention that not all discussions about race-related issues are productive. In fact, some are counter-productive - and some downright toxic. Such discussions only perpetuate racial tension and racism. In my opinion, internet discussions can too easily fall into this trap.
