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Old 07-25-2009, 08:19 AM
 
2,197 posts, read 7,380,721 times
Reputation: 1702

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I used my 'find' function and searched your links for that quote, and it doesn't seem to be there. Just find it, and cut/past the paragraph where it is attributed to some well-known thinker.

I think your quote is in the cherry tree category of myths.

Then explain why we are failing for lack of checks and balances, but we are weakened if we have people iwho disagree with the mainstream. Why won't you answer that question, instead of posting a link to the entire history of the Greek, Roman and Muslim civilizations?

Here's a link that proves you wrong:

United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
What quote? I stated PRECISELY why I think America is failing without using a single set of quote marks. Reread the post, if you’re interested. If it still is unclear to you, then well, all one can do is write concise sentences in English and hope that the majority of Americans can understand.

But let me try again-- one last time. I think America is failing, because Americans do not want the same things or have the same values. There is no shared vision and no common goal. We have become divided in almost every way possible, and a country divided ultimately falls. Notice I said, "I think." That means that it's my opinion, although it is one shared by many.

Here's another one: people who have money and are dissatisfied have the ability to go elsewhere. They are doing it now. They're moving their money, their investments, their factories and their jobs abroad. They're buying retirement property and homes in other countries. If that escalates, America will become a country of unhappy complainers with poor infrastructure and education, menial jobs, next-to-no manufacturing and little concern for the environment. That’s not an America everyone will embrace and many who can afford to will leave. Those who have it worse elsewhere will come, and the lowest common denominator will become lower and lower. We are not only letting this happen, we are causing this to happen. It’s happening, it’s real and it’s weakening America. (Notice: no quote marks.)

There is no right or wrong; it's my opinion. You can agree or disagree—your choice. But move on. Go find somebody else to swap links with or Google yourself. It seems to give you great pleasure.
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Old 07-25-2009, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,579 posts, read 86,764,762 times
Reputation: 36643
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodbyehollywood View Post
What quote? I stated PRECISELY why I think America is failing without using a single set of quote marks.
This one:

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodbyehollywood View Post
A nation divided is a nation weakened,.
I told you that it was a meaningess platitude. You attributed it to Lincoln and Franklin and everybody. Show me where they said it.

You're welcome to express it as an opinion if you like, but in the next paragraph you said the opposite---that our nation is failing because there are no checks and balances---in other words, no representation of viewpoints being used to challenge a single national philosophy.

The Constitution was written by men who knew American would always be divided, and the constitution provided for means of resolving those differences. That was the whole idea.

You are wrong on both counte. A nation divided is given strength by its diversity of views. And in America, the system of checks and balances is alive and well, buliding strength on its diversity of views.

I have friends and neighbors and associates and family members, and most of them, I do not know whether they are liberal or conservative, Republican or Democrat. There are a few that I talk such issues with, and there are point on which we agree, and on which we always disagree. Why might that matter? They remain within the fabric of my society. We are neither divided nor weakened.

Last edited by jtur88; 07-25-2009 at 08:56 AM..
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Old 07-25-2009, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Washington
844 posts, read 1,278,152 times
Reputation: 333
LOL, who quotes wikipedia and actually expects their claim to be taken seriously! Really???
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Old 07-25-2009, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,579 posts, read 86,764,762 times
Reputation: 36643
Quote:
Originally Posted by tindo80 View Post
LOL, who quotes wikipedia and actually expects their claim to be taken seriously! Really???
Wikipedia, for verifiable data, is a great deal more reliable than taking potluck on six-million google hits, the majority of which are blogs, and most of the rest are placed by interest groups with the highest coefficient of zealotry.
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Old 07-25-2009, 05:20 PM
 
Location: A Nation Possessed
25,480 posts, read 18,612,470 times
Reputation: 22372
Quote:
Originally Posted by tindo80 View Post
LOL, who quotes wikipedia and actually expects their claim to be taken seriously! Really???
Ummm, have you ever noticed the references at the bottom of the pages. Wikipedia is great for finding references to info. It gives a nice overview and then places to go for more. The references are typically all academically verifiable if they themselves aren’t academic papers. Wikipedia is a great place to start research on whatever topic. The only exception is when there are no references or someone has vandalized the page. They warn you about that at the top of the page (the neutrality issues or reference issues, etc).

Look up some advanced math sometime. You can go out and pay a hundred dollars for say a differential geometry textbook, or you can get a pretty good intro on wikipedia (in fact, it includes a link to an entire online differential geometry course). It's up to you, though. Order your references from amazon if you like; it's your money—but, half of them have pirate uploads on the internet anyway.

Last edited by ChrisC; 07-25-2009 at 05:30 PM..
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Old 07-25-2009, 05:27 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,292 posts, read 26,618,077 times
Reputation: 3925
Quote:
Originally Posted by tindo80 View Post
LOL, who quotes wikipedia and actually expects their claim to be taken seriously! Really???
Actually, Wikipedia is an excellent source of information - provided you have the intellectual integrity to START there, and follow the provided links and footnotes.
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Old 07-25-2009, 05:42 PM
 
24,370 posts, read 22,982,365 times
Reputation: 14945
I think eventually the right person will come along and unite the country. He'll almost certainly be an independant that will appeal to the mainstream and the centrists and only the extremist fringes( neocons and Obamatons) of the two parties will oppose him, everybody else cheer him or her on. Maybe in 2012, one can hope. Both parties are driving the country into the ground so much now that people will have to finally wake up and try for change.
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Old 07-25-2009, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Danville, Ca
314 posts, read 934,624 times
Reputation: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by tindo80 View Post
LOL, who quotes wikipedia and actually expects their claim to be taken seriously! Really???
All through college Professors has told the class if anybody uses wikipedia for a source the paper will automatically fail, I dont care if its the best paper you ever wrote. I myself has read some false information on wiki
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Old 07-25-2009, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Washington
844 posts, read 1,278,152 times
Reputation: 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Ummm, have you ever noticed the references at the bottom of the pages. Wikipedia is great for finding references to info. It gives a nice overview and then places to go for more. The references are typically all academically verifiable if they themselves aren’t academic papers. Wikipedia is a great place to start research on whatever topic. The only exception is when there are no references or someone has vandalized the page. They warn you about that at the top of the page (the neutrality issues or reference issues, etc).
H ave you ever checked the references? 1/2 the time they lead to dead links, the other half they lead to editorials, opinion articles and unproven statements. This is pretty much the fact on ANY wikipedia article with a debated or touchy topic background. Look into the discussion tab and see the fights over who wants to put what in, and how whatever mod decides what stays and what goes.

A while back, before it got even worst, I once frequented there trying to tie together links with recommended data. 9 times out of 10, if the Mod does not like it, regardless of its relevance or truth, its not going in. If the mod does, its going in. Heck, I am not the only one who has met these problems. Conservatives yell about how liberal some articles are, while liberals argue about how conservative others are, and Professors and Graduate students with academic experience in the serious topics usually end up losing out to some guy who posts 'the easiest' link to some unreliable opinion site. And thats not even mentioning how certain corporations actively monitor and modify their wiki's content to cut out more detrimental and relevant data (Microsoft, Scientologist, Fox, China etc).

Its really sad that actual encyclopedia publications are losing money people so many people are so trusting and ignorant that they will buy into anythng referenced on a wikipedia article that has some link to so some blog or editorial that claims to back it up.
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Old 07-25-2009, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,579 posts, read 86,764,762 times
Reputation: 36643
Has any of you ever gone to Wikipedia and created a page of your own biography?
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