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Old 07-24-2009, 04:56 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,470,255 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Oh, I don't think that is true. However the European variation was the first to be rationalized by developing a concept of racial classification and hierarchy. According to George M. Fredrickson, "The Historical Origins and Development of Racism";

"No clear and unequivocal evidence of racism has been found in other cultures or in Europe before the Middle Ages. The identification of the Jews with the devil and witchcraft in the popular mind of the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries was perhaps the first sign of a racist view of the world. Official sanction for such attitudes came in sixteenth century Spain when Jews who had converted to Christianity and their descendents became the victims of a pattern of discrimination and exclusion."

RACE - The Power of an Illusion . Background Readings | PBS
Actually, the "Christian" aspect of that had a LOT more to do with Martin Luther in Germany, than anything in Spain.

But long before that, many of the upper-Mediterranean peoples took a VERY dim view of Jews.

Again, evidence that racism has been around for eons.

 
Old 07-25-2009, 07:17 AM
 
1,257 posts, read 3,027,101 times
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Persecution of Jewish, Moorish and Protestants by the Holy Inquisition in Spain was not a racist persecution, but a political persecution. The same Great Inquisitor Torquemada was a converted Jew, and king Ferdinand had Jewish blood.

They were "enemies of the Faith", and by then, Europe was a "bipolar" world divided between Catholics and Protestants.

Racism and Nationalism came with Protestant Reformation. Emerging protestant nations created false myths (race, language, idiosincracies) to differentiate them from "Papist Europe".

America still lives in that era.
 
Old 07-25-2009, 07:34 AM
 
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One of the many laws promoting chattel slavery in the US was If you were not a christian in your country of origin ,you could be enslaved in the US.
 
Old 07-25-2009, 07:50 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,470,255 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thriftylefty View Post
One of the many laws promoting chattel slavery in the US was If you were not a christian in your country of origin ,you could be enslaved in the US.
What law was that? Got a link? Thanks.
 
Old 07-25-2009, 09:37 AM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,066,870 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
I guess that all depends on how you define racism.

It's a pick-and-choose thing here. To say that racism didn't exist before the Middle Ages is ludicrous. The word might not have appeared, but evidence is there. They just called it something else.
What is ludicrous is attempting argue against the historical record and then attempting to spin a semantic argument.

Quote:
There are many sources to choose from, but the Bible is one that's easily available.
If you got'em post'em

Quote:
And while I'm not going to argue it's historicity at all, it goes without saying that some of the people/races/cultures mentioned in the Bible did exist.
So, your answer is to dilute the term racism in to a catchall definition of drawn distinctions based upon not only race, but people (whatever that is suppose to mean) and cultures? Why not throw in hat size as well. Based upon your definition racism becomes an amorphous term lacking any worthwhile meaning.

"And since Fredrichson mentioned the Bible, here are a couple examples of racism from the Bible."

Yes, Fredrichson mentions the bible, which was interpreted by Western Europeans to explain the existence of persons before never encountered, which is a far cry from the Bible describing specific genetic types.

- The Jewish people, circa the time of Jesus, were racists against the Samaritans. They were hated as half-breeds. That is racism.

Oh, pulleeze! Now racism relates to any tribal or national hatred? Jesus!
 
Old 07-25-2009, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,590,043 times
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There is racism for the same reason there is Species-ism. Why do humans believe they are superior to other species?
 
Old 07-25-2009, 10:23 AM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
There is racism for the same reason there is Species-ism. Why do humans believe they are superior to other species?
We can save or destroy species. We can create subspecies like the Dog or certain flowers. Due to modern genetics we can just create species. We can go to the Moon and the bottom of the Marianas Trench They can't do any of these things.
 
Old 07-25-2009, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,590,043 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
We can save or destroy species. We can create subspecies like the Dog or certain flowers. Due to modern genetics we can just create species. We can go to the Moon and the bottom of the Marianas Trench They can't do any of these things.
Are those the only criteria of "superiority"---creating species and going to the moon?

How do you know that dolphins and whales have not done things that we cannot do, or even imagine. You can't see colors that a bee can see, or create a mental map of smells, like a dog.

Can a human remember a tree in the middle of hundreds of miles of unbroken forest in northern Canada, and go to South America for the winter, and return in the spring and find that same tree?

Human ingenuity has not found a way to feed or shelter a cold hungry member of our own species in one of our most advanced cities. Yet, even in the most remote jungle village, humans have not found a way to be safe from another human bearing napalm. Folks, that's not superiority.

Last edited by jtur88; 07-25-2009 at 10:50 AM..
 
Old 07-25-2009, 10:42 AM
 
8,812 posts, read 9,628,984 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
What law was that? Got a link? Thanks.
I'm Thinking it is from a passage in this book, but I am not 100% sure

The World The Slave Holders Made. Euguene D. Genovesse 1969 Vintage Books. pg\par
200-201, State Vs. Mann ,1829. Thomas Ruffin North Carolina Supreme Court Justice, ruled that a master cannot be charged with battery upon his slave. A master had complete ownership of the slave's will and his body, and could do anything to reap the fruits (labor ) of the slave. However 1839 in State Vs Hoover he also ruled that a master could not "willfully" kill his slave.
"
 
Old 07-25-2009, 11:07 AM
 
1,257 posts, read 3,027,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Race-based slavery is more English and Dutch created, not American. It occurred in Caribbean colonies of England and the Dutch Caribbean too. As well as in South Africa.

Granted it kind-of existed in Latin America too, but the child of a slave could be raised by the master-father. So the whole race thing is more complicated. The clear Black/White race-based slavery is more English and Dutch.

--------------

Blacks were brought into America as slaves when Father Bartolomé de las Casas declared that Indians had a soul and were lawful Castillian subjects with CLEAN BLOOD (no moorish or Jewish blood).

According to the law, blacks were not human and had not a soul.

Offsprings were also slaves, but mulattoes sometimes were trained as servants, "el negrito de la casa" (house (the N word).

Bartolomé de las Casas convinced Queen Isabella, she started to control the "Encomienda system" by which Indians were distributed to Spanish colonizers.

So the first black slaves arrived in 1516 and were brought by Portuguese merchants. Some 120 years before the first blacks slaves were imported into English colonies.
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