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Old 07-30-2009, 12:45 AM
 
455 posts, read 885,868 times
Reputation: 372

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Quote:
Originally Posted by las vegas drunk View Post
I used to say that cigarettes should be banned in all public places, but now I say they should be banned completely. I was watching a show called "The Dr's" today, and they were talking about "third hand smoke." I never heard of this term before today. It seems that even people that smoke outside, and away from us are making all of us sick. Here are some links on this....

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/03/he...h/03smoke.html

Is Third-Hand Smoke A Hazard? : NPR

'3rd-hand smoke' poses risk to infants, doctors say

I say enough is enough already. I remember having friends who were so addicted to cigarettes, they would literally beg to smoke in my car like they would die if they did not have one. I remember going to nightclubs and bars and coming home smelling like smoke and being sick from it. I remember my eyes burning. Sorry for the ranting and all, but what are everyone else's opinion on this issue?
Absolutely not. I hate cigarette smoke just as much as anyone, but I would be completely against outlawing cigarettes. If someone can smoke cigarettes without adversely affecting anyone else (who doesn't want to be adversely affected), then let them do it. It is their body, they should have the freedom to harm themselves in whatever manner they please. Again, given they are not harming others who do not want to be harmed in the process.

If we outlaw cigarettes, should we outlaw alcohol as well? Should we outlaw all foods that aren't "healthy"? It is a slippery slope, and a slippery slope in which I don't think the government should be sliding down. I agree with banning it in public spaces, but not banning altogether. Marijuana should be treated exactly the same way, but alas, Uncle Sam doesn't find it suitable.

Also to clarify to some: taxing is not the same as outlawing.

 
Old 07-30-2009, 01:17 AM
 
10,485 posts, read 22,547,424 times
Reputation: 6611
A lot of good points have been made in this thread. After hearing everyone's arguments, I can see I am a little off on my first post. As I said earlier, I have been personally affected by this. I am now physically ill because of smokers. 2 years ago I was flat broke and had no choice but to move into a place where all of the residents smoked. There were 8 of them. They all smoked in the house. Everyday I left the house, I smelled like smoked and my eyes were burning. I was also constantly coughing and having problems breathing. Thankfully, I only lived there for 3 months. The problem is, I was fine before I moved in there, and the symptoms I described are still persisting to this day even know I have never lived with smokers since then. I would not doubt I have lung cancer now. Regardless, I did move in with the smokers knowing it would not be a good idea. It was either move in there, or be homeless. It was the middle of summer in Las Vegas, but looking back I wish I would have chose to be homeless for a while instead. I now think the answer lies in making them really expensive, as in taxing the hell out of them($10 a pack or so), and banning them in all public places. That way, they would still remain legal, but most people would quit. What do you think?
 
Old 07-30-2009, 02:09 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
16,462 posts, read 19,996,430 times
Reputation: 22367
Default Here's a scenario

They finally legalize marijuana in the U.S.

The former marijuana fields in Mexico are converted to tobacco.

Or, the price of tobacco exceeds the price of marijuana.

Either way, money-hungry entrepreneurs will always be there to fill the gap.

Then, no cigarette tax revenue to lean on!
 
Old 07-30-2009, 03:14 AM
 
5,905 posts, read 5,079,972 times
Reputation: 4534
Quote:
Originally Posted by las vegas drunk View Post
A lot of good points have been made in this thread. After hearing everyone's arguments, I can see I am a little off on my first post. As I said earlier, I have been personally affected by this. I am now physically ill because of smokers. 2 years ago I was flat broke and had no choice but to move into a place where all of the residents smoked. There were 8 of them. They all smoked in the house. Everyday I left the house, I smelled like smoked and my eyes were burning. I was also constantly coughing and having problems breathing. Thankfully, I only lived there for 3 months. The problem is, I was fine before I moved in there, and the symptoms I described are still persisting to this day even know I have never lived with smokers since then. I would not doubt I have lung cancer now. Regardless, I did move in with the smokers knowing it would not be a good idea. It was either move in there, or be homeless. It was the middle of summer in Las Vegas, but looking back I wish I would have chose to be homeless for a while instead. I now think the answer lies in making them really expensive, as in taxing the hell out of them($10 a pack or so), and banning them in all public places. That way, they would still remain legal, but most people would quit. What do you think?
Wow. Just....wow.

Cigarettes are legal. So are cell phones, alcohol, butter, Twinkies, tanning beds, guns, Red Bull, porn, plastic water bottles, skateboards, roller blades, ATVs, motorcycles, and red meat. Look hard enough, and you will find a group of hot-heads who want to ban them, tax them, or punish those who partake in them.

Just because YOU don't like something does not give you the right to tax it at your whim.

Nor does it give you the right to attempt to regulate MY life on the basis of lies, propaganda, and mass somatization disorder (ie, hysteria).

It is frankly none of your business if I smoke. NONE.

I happen to vehemently dislike drunkards...but it is their right to drink as long as they refrain from driving, disturbing the peace, assaulting people, or vomiting/urinating in my yard.

You want to tax my legal cigarettes to death? The minute your beer starts costing you $60 a 6-pack, let me know if you think it's a wise solution. Illegal taxation under the guise of 'behavior modification' is nothing more than....well, illegal taxation.

Furthermore, there is no evidence that a mere 3 months spent around smokers is going to give you cancer (the mere suggestion sounds like an anxiety reaction). Did you not read my post 2 pages prior? If that was insufficient, I will give you another link (which, while not the best as far as source citation, is a good summary of information readily found elsewhere--sorry, but it's 5am where I am, and I'm tired):

HYSTERIA ABOUT SECONDARY SMOKE--TIMELINE

As to your continued symptoms, I would certainly seek out medical help. You may have have chronic rhinitis, sinusitis, bronchitis....or perhaps even an alcohol-related disorder (first one that comes to mind would be ascites/fluid retention, which can cause lung problems). Actually, if you recently moved to the Vegas area, the constant exposure to silica dust is also a likely candidate. I've known several people from there (nonsmokers) who suffered from 'Desert Hack'.

So, you can ban my vice when I can ban yours...agreed?
 
Old 07-30-2009, 03:31 AM
 
Location: Ohio
2,178 posts, read 7,796,014 times
Reputation: 3890
Yeah, smoking is harmful.
Vehicle exhaust is harmful.
Now they want to put warning labels on hotdogs.
Your oudoor grill is harmful.
Breathing the air in citys with factories that give people employment is harmful.
Methane from live stock that is raised for food is harmful.
Nuclear plants that give us electricity are harmful.
Xrays, operations, bee stings, driving, eating, drinking, animals, flying, and people themselves can be harmful.
The most natural thing in life, reproducing offspring, can be harmful. Women have died during childbirth.
Why dont we just ban life and get it over with.
Or go back to the days before fire was invented and have to hunt and eat our meat raw.
Whoops, I forgot, uncooked meat is harmful also.
If someone smoking was the most dangerous thing we encounter in life, we would be very lucky.
 
Old 07-30-2009, 04:34 AM
 
10,485 posts, read 22,547,424 times
Reputation: 6611
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayneinspain View Post
Wow. Just....wow.

Cigarettes are legal. So are cell phones, alcohol, butter, Twinkies, tanning beds, guns, Red Bull, porn, plastic water bottles, skateboards, roller blades, ATVs, motorcycles, and red meat. Look hard enough, and you will find a group of hot-heads who want to ban them, tax them, or punish those who partake in them.

Just because YOU don't like something does not give you the right to tax it at your whim.

Nor does it give you the right to attempt to regulate MY life on the basis of lies, propaganda, and mass somatization disorder (ie, hysteria).

It is frankly none of your business if I smoke. NONE.

I happen to vehemently dislike drunkards...but it is their right to drink as long as they refrain from driving, disturbing the peace, assaulting people, or vomiting/urinating in my yard.

You want to tax my legal cigarettes to death? The minute your beer starts costing you $60 a 6-pack, let me know if you think it's a wise solution. Illegal taxation under the guise of 'behavior modification' is nothing more than....well, illegal taxation.

Furthermore, there is no evidence that a mere 3 months spent around smokers is going to give you cancer (the mere suggestion sounds like an anxiety reaction). Did you not read my post 2 pages prior? If that was insufficient, I will give you another link (which, while not the best as far as source citation, is a good summary of information readily found elsewhere--sorry, but it's 5am where I am, and I'm tired):

HYSTERIA ABOUT SECONDARY SMOKE--TIMELINE

As to your continued symptoms, I would certainly seek out medical help. You may have have chronic rhinitis, sinusitis, bronchitis....or perhaps even an alcohol-related disorder (first one that comes to mind would be ascites/fluid retention, which can cause lung problems). Actually, if you recently moved to the Vegas area, the constant exposure to silica dust is also a likely candidate. I've known several people from there (nonsmokers) who suffered from 'Desert Hack'.

So, you can ban my vice when I can ban yours...agreed?
Ok, a couple key points here. I am originally from Phoenix, Arizona and I had already lived in Las Vegas over a year before I moved in with the smokers. I got sick within a week of living there. I also did get better, although not completely, since leaving there. Getting sick was all contributed to second hand smoke, there is no way all of this is a coincidence. I never lived with smokers before, or after this.

As far as this statement....

"I happen to vehemently dislike drunkards...but it is their right to drink as long as they refrain from driving, disturbing the peace, assaulting people, or vomiting/urinating in my yard."

I do none of these things. I normally drink alone except on my days off when I go to the strip. I still keep to myself and cause no problems for anyone else.

"It is frankly none of your business if I smoke. NONE."

As long as you do not affect me in any way with it, I agree with you on this.

"So, you can ban my vice when I can ban yours...agreed?"

My vice and your vice are completely different. I can drink around people without forcing others to drink with me, that is why smoking and drinking can not be compared. My recent story follows bellow...

I was at a major casino on the strip playing craps a couple of months ago. I had been at the table for a few hours, and not one person was ever smoking at the table, even know it was busy. This guy joins the table right next to me. He immediately started smoking. I politely asked him to try to smoke away from me. His response was "this is the casino, I can smoke as much as I want!!!" Now, I never told him not to smoke, just to keep it away from me. Since he really was a jerk about it, I started building up anger inside. Once my eyes starting watering, and I started getting sick from it, I finally could not take it anymore. The waitress came by at that time, and I ended up throwing my whole drink on him ( the rum and coke only, not the glass) and promptly leaving right away. It didn't matter, security got me and now I am banned from this casino for the rest of my life because of his lack of courtesy and respect. He completely deserved it IMO, I did not. Now here is another recent situation. I came up to a blackjack table with 1 open spot. As soon as I sat down, the players begged me not to smoke. They told me the guy who just left was smoking and making everyone sick. I promptly told them I hate smokers myself so everything was cool, and they were relieved. My point on all this is how different alcohol is to smoking. I have never, ever in my life had anyone ever say, "can you please not drink next to me." Case closed... This thread was opened to discuss smoking, and what it does to non smokers around them, not alcohol.
 
Old 07-30-2009, 06:14 AM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,318,833 times
Reputation: 2558
Quote:
Originally Posted by las vegas drunk View Post
I only support the government coming into our lives if it is beneficial to the majority of the population. To me, smoking out in public, and literally forcing it on everyone is criminal. I will expand on that one. I like to drink alcohol. However, I only affect myself with it. Smoking in public is no different than me going and getting shi%tfaced drunk, and getting behind the wheel. Same difference....
Bullsnot. Smoking in public doesn't force anything on anyone, they can move upwind if they like. The FACT is there is not a single definitive study showing second hand smoke is harmful. Nationwide smoking kills alot of people, but those are smokers. Nationwide drinking kills many thousands of innocents every year. Your habit collectively kills many times the innocents than smoking does, if smoking kills any. As well as contributing to domestic violence & many other crimes of violence. I dont believe for a red hot second that someone who says they like to drink never gets behind the wheel either. But thats irrelevant too. The relevant thing is your inclination to subject others to your will based on lies & manipulation.
Go have a beer & mind your business.
 
Old 07-30-2009, 06:28 AM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,318,833 times
Reputation: 2558
Quote:
Originally Posted by las vegas drunk View Post

I was at a major casino on the strip playing craps a couple of months ago. I had been at the table for a few hours, and not one person was ever smoking at the table, even know it was busy. This guy joins the table right next to me. He immediately started smoking. I politely asked him to try to smoke away from me. His response was "this is the casino, I can smoke as much as I want!!!" Now, I never told him not to smoke, just to keep it away from me. Since he really was a jerk about it, I started building up anger inside. Once my eyes starting watering, and I started getting sick from it, I finally could not take it anymore. The waitress came by at that time, and I ended up throwing my whole drink on him ( the rum and coke only, not the glass) and promptly leaving right away. It didn't matter, security got me and now I am banned from this casino for the rest of my life because of his lack of courtesy and respect. He completely deserved it IMO, I did not. Now here is another recent situation. I came up to a blackjack table with 1 open spot. As soon as I sat down, the players begged me not to smoke. They told me the guy who just left was smoking and making everyone sick. I promptly told them I hate smokers myself so everything was cool, and they were relieved. My point on all this is how different alcohol is to smoking. I have never, ever in my life had anyone ever say, "can you please not drink next to me." Case closed... This thread was opened to discuss smoking, and what it does to non smokers around them, not alcohol.
So, let me get this straight. A private business on private property that you have no need to enter should ban smoking to prevent YOU from assaulting customers?

I think you are confused about what constitutes a PUBLIC place. PUBLIC buildings I agree should not permit smoking. An ill person, such as you seem to be MUST go there sometimes. Nobody needs to go to a casino & the truth is that if most folks wanted to go to smoke free ones they would pop up on their own.

As far as taxing the heck out of them what good is that? I find it disgusting that they tax both booze & cigs at the levels they do. Tax's are not suposed to be penalties or punishments. They are suposed to be people paying their fair share to cover the costs of running a society.

Actually anti smokers seem to cost more by constantly taking up legislative time pushing their agenda & then if a bill becomes law theres the cost of enforcing it, police, court costs ect. Perhaps we should tax anti freedom activists more.

I'm still amazed that a person with your afflictions chooses to hang out in casinos & bars. Have you ever sought counseling?
 
Old 07-30-2009, 06:43 AM
 
7,376 posts, read 12,524,711 times
Reputation: 6934
I dont agree with outlawing cigs. This is America where we have the right to choose what we do to our bodies. If someone wants to smoke and fill their lungs with chemicals, I say its their choice. I do agree that smoking should be banned from public places though.
 
Old 07-30-2009, 06:45 AM
 
10,485 posts, read 22,547,424 times
Reputation: 6611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker View Post
Bullsnot. Smoking in public doesn't force anything on anyone, they can move upwind if they like. The FACT is there is not a single definitive study showing second hand smoke is harmful. Nationwide smoking kills alot of people, but those are smokers. Nationwide drinking kills many thousands of innocents every year. Your habit collectively kills many times the innocents than smoking does, if smoking kills any. As well as contributing to domestic violence & many other crimes of violence. I dont believe for a red hot second that someone who says they like to drink never gets behind the wheel either. But thats irrelevant too. The relevant thing is your inclination to subject others to your will based on lies & manipulation.
Go have a beer & mind your business.
Please do not post nonsense.....

Secondhand Smoke Fact Sheet - American Lung Association site (http://www.lungusa.org/site/c.dvLUK9O0E/b.35422/ - broken link)

Secondhand Smoke: Questions and Answers - National Cancer Institute

Smoke-free Homes and Cars Program | Indoor Air | US EPA

Drunk Driving Accident Statistics: Alcohol-Related Car Crash Deaths
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