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Old 08-23-2009, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,304,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
I am a conservative but not on this issue. Logically, to me, if marriage is an ideal to be aspired to, and I think it is, I think gays ought to be able to partake in it. Statistics even show married people live longer. But, I do not think religious institutions should be forced to go against their beliefs in any matter so while I'm okay with gay marriage, I don't think religious institutions that prohibit it in their teachings should be forced to perform the ceremony. I've said this before but I also think gay people should talk more about why they want to be married rather than spend time addressing the opposition to it.
Absolutely, I agree whole heartedly.

The state shouldn't tell any church they have to marry anyone, just like they shouldn't be able to say they can't marry anyone.

I don't think the state should be in the business of telling anyone what they can or cannot do.
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Old 08-23-2009, 03:01 PM
 
1,779 posts, read 2,037,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Absolutely, I agree whole heartedly.

The state shouldn't tell any church they have to marry anyone, just like they shouldn't be able to say they can't marry anyone.

I don't think the state should be in the business of telling anyone what they can or cannot do.
Technically they cant do anything without the majority of the people behind them. If we say no more in a united effort then they have to listen, if they refuse then we are within our legal rights to do whatever it takes to take back our country.

But I agree that churches should not be forced to marry people they dont want to. I know a church in the area that makes couples go through a marriage counseling class if they want to be married in the church. If the topic of divorce comes up once, for one second, then the church wont do it.

Wow, so this thread so far is proving my point that homosexuals in no way hurt anyone. I would love to call a few posters out here but I am sure it goes against the rules. But I am sure you know who you are, you have argued this issue with me countless times and now you fall silent...lol. Thank you for proving me right.
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Old 08-23-2009, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,697,018 times
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Marriage is really a religious institution that is legally recognized. It shouldn't be surprising that we find the definition of what marriage should be in religion. Marriage symbolizes the forming of a family and, more importantly, in the past (when it was invented) to declare who the, legal and moral, father of the children is. It was a way for women, who could not take care of themselves to be taken care of. It established that a man was responsible for his wife and kids. Anymore, it's a pretty outdated concept.

First, many marriages fail and they're easy to get out of so the value is limited. Second we have DNA testing so we know who the daddy is. Third women can support themselves these days.

Personally, I don't get the attraction to get married if you're gay. There are legal doctuments you can draw up giving anyone you want the power of a spouse.
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Old 08-23-2009, 04:18 PM
 
1,779 posts, read 2,037,221 times
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[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Marriage is really a religious institution that is legally recognized. It shouldn't be surprising that we find the definition of what marriage should be in religion. Marriage symbolizes the forming of a family and, more importantly, in the past (when it was invented) to declare who the, legal and moral, father of the children is. It was a way for women, who could not take care of themselves to be taken care of. It established that a man was responsible for his wife and kids. Anymore, it's a pretty outdated concept.
Almost all of what you say is false. marriage was not created by any religion. Religion did create holy matrimony so they can hold claim to that as much as they want. Religion predates the bible and its teachings.

Quote:
First, many marriages fail and they're easy to get out of so the value is limited. Second we have DNA testing so we know who the daddy is. Third women can support themselves these days.
This I do agree with...


Quote:
Personally, I don't get the attraction to get married if you're gay. There are legal documents you can draw up giving anyone you want the power of a spouse.
No there are over 1000 benefits to being married. you cannot get most of these benefits without being actually married.
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Old 08-23-2009, 06:05 PM
 
4,529 posts, read 4,738,204 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Marriage is really a religious institution that is legally recognized. It shouldn't be surprising that we find the definition of what marriage should be in religion. Marriage symbolizes the forming of a family and, more importantly, in the past (when it was invented) to declare who the, legal and moral, father of the children is. It was a way for women, who could not take care of themselves to be taken care of. It established that a man was responsible for his wife and kids. Anymore, it's a pretty outdated concept.

First, many marriages fail and they're easy to get out of so the value is limited. Second we have DNA testing so we know who the daddy is. Third women can support themselves these days.

Personally, I don't get the attraction to get married if you're gay. There are legal doctuments you can draw up giving anyone you want the power of a spouse.
Firstly, marriage is NOT a religious institution, and has never been in this Nation, and never has been period. If such was the case, better get busy telling all the Athiests, and we who were married in a court house, that their marriages "aren't real". One cannot get married without a state issued marriage license, one cannot get legally married unless the cerimony, civil or religious, is conducted by a state authorized and licensed Marriage Officiant.

Marriage is, and always has been in this Country, a legal institution that a portion of the citizenry prefer to enact utilizing religious marriage cerimonies.

Secondly, if you cannot see the need for basic equality, then perhaps you may want to rethink your position. Also, civil unions do not, and cannot, approach the same thousand plus rights and privlages by wife and I recieved the instant the judge said "I now pronounce you...".

Seperate but equal was attempted in this Nation already, and it is a shameful period in our Nation's history.
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Old 08-23-2009, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,523,609 times
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Marriage was not, in it earliest inception, a religious function. Long before there were any churches to make life hell on earth, men and women were pairing off in couplehood and creating children. As soon as a man and a woman made an agreement with each other to mate, that was a marriage, since it was natural for humans, a greagrious species, to form relationships that had a certain monogamy. Later on, when thugs discovered they could control people and seize their wealth with mumbo jumbo to explain why it got dark at night, churches formed, and had to stick their noses into everything for their own security and self-interest. They grabbed onto marriage and charged high fees in silver and gold to be paid to the church in exchange for solemnizing the status.

Neither the Romans nor the Greeks applied any government or religious ceremony to the formation of a marriage. They were simply verbal contracts.

Last edited by jtur88; 08-23-2009 at 06:39 PM..
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Old 08-23-2009, 10:31 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,453,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Marriage was not, in it earliest inception, a religious function. Long before there were any churches to make life hell on earth, men and women were pairing off in couplehood and creating children. As soon as a man and a woman made an agreement with each other to mate, that was a marriage, since it was natural for humans, a greagrious species, to form relationships that had a certain monogamy. Later on, when thugs discovered they could control people and seize their wealth with mumbo jumbo to explain why it got dark at night, churches formed, and had to stick their noses into everything for their own security and self-interest. They grabbed onto marriage and charged high fees in silver and gold to be paid to the church in exchange for solemnizing the status.
Honestly, your relentless church/religion bashing gets really old. You're entitled to your opinions - most of which are pretty out-dated and ludicrous - but all you're doing with your relentless religion-bashing is making a public arse of yourself.

In addition, you're proving yourself to be a complete, unashamed and unadulterated hypocrite - because all this tolerance you call for is something you adamantly REFUSE to extend to those who don't toe the line with your way of thinking. Frankly, in that regard, you're nothing but a re-warmed Nazi.

You SHOULD be ashamed of yourself.
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Old 08-23-2009, 10:55 PM
 
1,779 posts, read 2,037,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
Honestly, your relentless church/religion bashing gets really old. You're entitled to your opinions - most of which are pretty out-dated and ludicrous - but all you're doing with your relentless religion-bashing is making a public arse of yourself.

In addition, you're proving yourself to be a complete, unashamed and unadulterated hypocrite - because all this tolerance you call for is something you adamantly REFUSE to extend to those who don't toe the line with your way of thinking. Frankly, in that regard, you're nothing but a re-warmed Nazi.

You SHOULD be ashamed of yourself.
Actually the christian movement seems more like a nazi type group. Trying to get laws passed in favor of their beliefs because the bible says so...Odd that we say some religions are bad for killing non believers but christianity did it not to long ago, and still tries to force people into slave religion.
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Old 08-24-2009, 04:36 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,304,497 times
Reputation: 8606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
Honestly, your relentless church/religion bashing gets really old. You're entitled to your opinions - most of which are pretty out-dated and ludicrous - but all you're doing with your relentless religion-bashing is making a public arse of yourself.

In addition, you're proving yourself to be a complete, unashamed and unadulterated hypocrite - because all this tolerance you call for is something you adamantly REFUSE to extend to those who don't toe the line with your way of thinking. Frankly, in that regard, you're nothing but a re-warmed Nazi.

You SHOULD be ashamed of yourself.
Quit bringing up religion in rational debate, and others will quit bashing it.

Its like playing dodge ball, everyone aims for the slow kid first. When you bring religion into a reasoned, knowledgeable, great debate, YOU SIR ARE THE SLOW KID. You're just easy to hit.
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Old 08-24-2009, 05:34 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
33,948 posts, read 32,373,038 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post

Personally, I don't get the attraction to get married if you're gay. There are legal doctuments you can draw up giving anyone you want the power of a spouse.
Actually though, the legal thing isn't working for them in swaying hearts and minds. One side is talking marriage as a love, commitment, family state of being and the other side is talking marriage in legal terms like spousal rights/privileges. That's why the one side is offering up civil unions instead of marriage. Gays are making "marriage" sound like a business deal so the other side is offering up a business deal. Straight people don't get married because they want tax breaks and discounts.

I think to win people over, gays need to talk more about why they want to be married using the same love, commitment, family state of being language (and mean it) that the other side uses. Gays who have no interest in being married and just see this as a "gay rights" issue need to get off the national stage and just let the gays who really believe in marriage, do the talking about the institution of marriage and what it means to them.
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