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Old 08-24-2009, 06:13 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,218,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Quit bringing up religion in rational debate, and others will quit bashing it.

Its like playing dodge ball, everyone aims for the slow kid first. When you bring religion into a reasoned, knowledgeable, great debate, YOU SIR ARE THE SLOW KID. You're just easy to hit.
Where am I bringing it up as a point of argument.

Oooops!!! I'm not!

You lose. Again.
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Old 08-24-2009, 06:15 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,218,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
Actually the christian movement seems more like a nazi type group. Trying to get laws passed in favor of their beliefs because the bible says so...Odd that we say some religions are bad for killing non believers but christianity did it not to long ago, and still tries to force people into slave religion.

Sorry, but the seething hatred of your atheism is showing again...
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Old 08-24-2009, 06:17 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
Actually though, the legal thing isn't working for them in swaying hearts and minds. One side is talking marriage as a love, commitment, family state of being and the other side is talking marriage in legal terms like spousal rights/privileges. That's why the one side is offering up civil unions instead of marriage. Gays are making "marriage" sound like a business deal so the other side is offering up a business deal. Straight people don't get married because they want tax breaks and discounts.

I think to win people over, gays need to talk more about why they want to be married using the same love, commitment, family state of being language (and mean it) that the other side uses. Gays who have no interest in being married and just see this as a "gay rights" issue need to get off the national stage and just let the gays who really believe in marriage, do the talking about the institution of marriage and what it means to them.
I think what it boils down to is very simple. Homosexuals feel they are being denied the opportunity to do the exact same thing heterosexuals are allowed to do.

At it's core, I don't think the issue is any more complicated than that.
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Old 08-24-2009, 06:29 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
7,425 posts, read 5,491,311 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Quit bringing up religion in rational debate, and others will quit bashing it.

Its like playing dodge ball, everyone aims for the slow kid first. When you bring religion into a reasoned, knowledgeable, great debate, YOU SIR ARE THE SLOW KID. You're just easy to hit.
Good post - and I like the dodge ball analogy.
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Old 08-24-2009, 06:31 AM
 
1,779 posts, read 2,015,386 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
Sorry, but the seething hatred of your atheism is showing again...
I have nothing against God or his religion...its his followers I cant stand.

ok, seriously I have nothing against religious people as long as they keep their religion to themselves. Just as they ask me to keep my atheism to myself.
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Old 08-24-2009, 06:35 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,218,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
I have nothing against God or his religion...its his followers I cant stand.

ok, seriously I have nothing against religious people as long as they keep their religion to themselves. Just as they ask me to keep my atheism to myself.
Your double-speak and self-contradictions are kind of amusing. Really, they are.

So why DON'T you keep your atheism to yourself, instead of brandishing it everywhere, and throwing it in the face of anybody you don't like?

You might want to think about that.
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Old 08-24-2009, 07:13 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,915 posts, read 7,018,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
I am a conservative but not on this issue. Logically, to me, if marriage is an ideal to be aspired to, and I think it is, I think gays ought to be able to partake in it. Statistics even show married people live longer. But, I do not think religious institutions should be forced to go against their beliefs in any matter so while I'm okay with gay marriage, I don't think religious institutions that prohibit it in their teachings should be forced to perform the ceremony. I've said this before but I also think gay people should talk more about why they want to be married rather than spend time addressing the opposition to it.
It isn't done today with heterosexuals. Churches can choose or to decline to marry any heterosexual couple they please. Why even bring it up?
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Old 08-24-2009, 07:22 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,218,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
It isn't done today with heterosexuals. Churches can choose or to decline to marry any heterosexual couple they please. Why even bring it up?
That's an important point though...

First of all, I cannot imagine why a homosexual couple would ever be a part of a church that condemns homosexuality - let alone, want to get married there and have a pastor perform a ceremony he believes strongly against.

I've run across some "church forums" where they're calling for the "rounding up and execution" of all homosexuals. It's rather shocking, not to mention appalling. But it'd be even more shocking if there were homosexuals that chose to be involved in those type religions.

So on one level, it seems that it would be a moot point.

On the other hand, the question that cannot be answered is whether or not churches (or other private organizations), that stand against homosexuality, are going to be legally forced to hire people they don't believe should be hired, and marry people they don't believe should be married.


So in a way, it's a weird question of whether my quest for civil rights should be allowed to infringe on the civil rights of somebody else.
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Old 08-24-2009, 08:08 AM
 
47,933 posts, read 38,579,505 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
Okay I am so sick of people who are all about stopping the homosexual community from getting married and even having relationships with other homosexuals. How are they hurting you or anyone else by getting married or having a relationship with someone of the same sex?

If you cannot answer this question then you have no reason to pester these good people anymore. So go back to your bibles and close-minded lives and leave them alone.
I personally have no problem with gays or gay marriage.

I do have a problem with people that are narrow minded and hateful.
With that said, your own post seems pretty close to that line itself.
You are kinda breaking my irony meter by demanding other people shouldn't be allowed to voice thier opposition because they are "close minded"....so you are right and they are wrong?

P.S. There are plenty of non-religious people that are anti-gay. Go pick up a random rap record.
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Old 08-24-2009, 08:16 AM
 
47,933 posts, read 38,579,505 times
Reputation: 29890
Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
Actually the christian movement seems more like a nazi type group. Trying to get laws passed in favor of their beliefs because the bible says so...Odd that we say some religions are bad for killing non believers but christianity did it not to long ago, and still tries to force people into slave religion.
Huh? A Nazi reference now? Seriously, this is great debates not 5th grade recess.

The majority of Americans, INCLUDING THE CURRENT PRESIDENT, don't support gay marriage. (Currently)

Go down to the local homeless shelter, food bank, people volunteering at nursing homes....then come back and tell me about all those awful religious people you met.

Demonizing an entire group because you are unhappy with the gay-marriage thing is childish. It's no different than some nutjob trying to paint all gays as pedophiles that prance about in tutus.
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