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Old 08-30-2009, 10:59 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
4,893 posts, read 3,346,442 times
Reputation: 2956

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
So send working women home, and give men their jobs. Oh, wait, that's sexist. But what you said isn't.
Men's identity is more intrinsically linked to their jobs and to being "providers" in general than it is for women, so....
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Old 08-30-2009, 11:03 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,853 posts, read 35,071,597 times
Reputation: 22694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swansen View Post
We have an ever growing population and in this world we have the mentality that everyone must work. So, in our current economic situation when there just simply aren't enough positions for the amount of people out there, what do you do?? Is it really feasible to just wait around for years for the world to recover and what do you do in the meantime? My question is that simple, even if we were to retrain every single person, i doubt we we really allocated that many people back into work, so what is the solution??

I realize this is always an issue, but right now we have a great number of people that simply have no power left to do anything. Their money and possessions are gone, along with their home, so what do they do?. There is this tenting community in RI, but they are on state land and are probably going to be evicted, they tried, but evidently will fail.

Its just frustrating, capitalism is cannibalism, and normal people are always the ones who get dumped on.
Not everyone gets a "job". Some people create opportunities and then give other people jobs. There are as many opportunities out there as there are grains of sand on the beach. But people need to understsand that they have to get out there and do something about it. Sitting around waiting for the check to arrive isn't going to cut it.

They should mandate that ALL people on unemployment and welfare MUST BE VEGETARIANS. Not only would it be cheaper, but it would certainly motivate people to get/create a job. LOL

20yrsinBranson
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:39 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,579 posts, read 86,772,693 times
Reputation: 36643
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycanmaster View Post
Men's identity is more intrinsically linked to their jobs and to being "providers" in general than it is for women, so....
. . . .so women do not need jobs. Send the women home, so men can be have the jobs and be the providers. I was told earlier today that women don't make good moms, either (Miu, post #58)---they just go shopping. What's to be done with them?

Maybe we need a thread "What do we do about all the women who are not intrinsically linked to being providers and are also not good moms, and are gumming up the works by either having jobs or staying home raising kids, neither of which they are intrinsically linked to doing competently?" Maybe we already answered that in that prostitution thread that was so active a few days ago.

Last edited by jtur88; 08-31-2009 at 12:48 AM..
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:59 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,714 posts, read 8,451,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
Thread going off course...
It's about more people than jobs available. If 20 honest people who want to work apply for one job, 19 will be without a job.
America will have to prepare itself for the sight of expanding slums, shanty towns, and the increase of more poor people living on the streets. That's America's future.

If high unemployment becomes a truly chronic economic reality, several things could be done that I can think of in just a few seconds:

* job sharing - penalize companies whose workers put in more than X hours per week - increase the number of people working at the same number of jobs, so hours per week per worker goes down to meet the reality of the economy's situation

* subsidize new businesses - encourage individuals and small businesses to find new needs to meet and products to build - 5 year income tax moratorium on those businesses applied according to a sliding scale based on how many new jobs your business adds

* penalize the flight of capital out of the country that results in a reduction in the number of domestic jobs

* penalize population growth

* prevent illegal immigration - the payoff comes when the cost to the nation of services for the chronically unemployed passes the cost of removing illegals
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Old 08-31-2009, 01:31 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,579 posts, read 86,772,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkTwain View Post
* job sharing - penalize companies whose workers put in more than X hours per week - increase the number of people working at the same number of jobs, so hours per week per worker goes down to meet the reality of the economy's situation
Why do you think it makes more sense to have 100 people working 30 hours, than having 75 people working 40 hours (and 25 people staying home), with the total payroll the same divided up 100 ways?

Instead of giving the workers ten hours off every week, why not give them a year off every four years?

Aside from the standard reason, that it is an inviolable universal principle, like gravity, that everyone must work, and all sacrifices must be made to enforce the principle that evryone must work.

I really love this East German style of Americanism, where the solution to every problem is to punish and penalize. We don't have nough prisons, so I guess the punishing and penalizing will be left in the hands of armed guards with dogs and spotlights. Like the ones who prevented illegal EMigration.

Last edited by jtur88; 08-31-2009 at 01:44 AM..
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Old 08-31-2009, 03:29 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,714 posts, read 8,451,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Why do you think it makes more sense to have 100 people working 30 hours, than having 75 people working 40 hours (and 25 people staying home), with the total payroll the same divided up 100 ways?

Because the way compensation works today, you don't get the benefits (health insurance) unless you have something more than a "part-time" job. 30 hrs/week, for instance, represents more than "part-time" for some kinds of jobs today. I don't know what the figure would be under a new system of workplace laws.
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Old 08-31-2009, 06:27 AM
 
14,380 posts, read 14,207,248 times
Reputation: 45695
Jtur,

I think what you are hearing indirectly from many of us is that while we understand the issue of difficulty finding work in an era of both high technology and recession, we don't think the solution is to idle a large segment of the population. It may be a trite cliche', but I do believe the old statement that "the devil finds work for idle hands to do". I see the following problems with idling people indefinitely:

1. They come to expect it and when a job comes along they don't want to take it.
2. It creates feelings of envy among those who do work and are producing which may cause them to become less productive.
3. It very likely leads the idle and unemployed into activities like drug and alcohol abuse, as well as stealing.
4. It represents an untapped potential, or an used resource. Most of us know there are plenty of things that need to be done in this country. Just because the capitalist system doesn't allow someone to make a profit doing them doesn't mean they should be done. Nor does it mean that public good will not result from these things being done either.
5. It causes a lack of self respect on the part of the idle and unemployed. They look at themselves and wonder why they can't find a job like the other people and than they lose self worth as a result. Their children see that the parents aren't working and see them as something less than parents who can find a job.

I don't see this as some kind of "slave labor model". I see it as e socially just system that brings out the talents and potential in all members of society. We have as much abundance as we do in America because so many people have worked and continue to work. Everyone needs to participate in and understand that connection.

Plenty of jobs exist right now even with 9% unemployment. However, if enough jobs don't exist I think a better solution is either tax breaks to business to get them to hire more people, or as a last resort have the government employ people for various public purposes ranging from building projects to picking up litter.
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Old 08-31-2009, 06:53 AM
 
Location: A Nation Possessed
25,482 posts, read 18,618,666 times
Reputation: 22375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycanmaster View Post
Men's identity is more intrinsically linked to their jobs and to being "providers" in general than it is for women, so....
Yes, this seems to be true. For some reason men are more comfortable with being labeled by their 'tasks'--not unlike that of a robot. It seems women are a bit more intelligent in this regard because they are not as likely to be happy as a robot.

I think a better question for this thread would be, "When will there either be a sufficient number of tasks for the monkeys to perform, or a change in the mindset that every monkey must perform a trick."


I often wonder if we are really any better off than our distant forefathers from the past who were simple hunter-gatherers or agriculturally sustained. Everyone knew their job, everyone had a job, it was the same job, and if they didn't do their job they starved. But then nobody lacked employment or had to go begging others for employment. They just did it. And I'd doubt the conversation often turned to employment around the campfire. It wouldn't have lasted long:

"What are you?"
"I gather food, and you?"
"I gather food"
"Ugh."
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Old 08-31-2009, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,579 posts, read 86,772,693 times
Reputation: 36643
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkTwain View Post
Because the way compensation works today, you don't get the benefits (health insurance) unless you have something more than a "part-time" job. 30 hrs/week, for instance, represents more than "part-time" for some kinds of jobs today. I don't know what the figure would be under a new system of workplace laws.
But why is it always necessary to constrain a theoretical restructuring of a system with "the way it works today"? You're saying the whole ldea cannot possibly work, because of today's system of workplace laws.
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Old 08-31-2009, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 59,665,850 times
Reputation: 24861
All men must work

This is basically a religious argument about Mammon's sacred decree that all must work for the glory of god. All men must work so a few do not need to.

Sorry, Mammon's not my god. My god doesn’t care weather I work or not as long as there is enough money coming in. I'll drop out of the workforce in a second it unemployment lasted long enough and paid enough.

As it do not I must still waste good motorcycle riding time working? I really should have held out for sane rich parents.
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