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These kinds of threads force us all to try to keep it real, he was a politician, there isn't much to say about such men, wherein the good they do offsets the bad. they simply are what they chose to be, and love em, or hate em, we certainly know one overiding truth, They're all cut from the same cloth.
I think anybody who told you that story is an out and out liar. He saved himself, left the scene and didn't even report it before they found her dead body. It doesn't even sound like he tried to save her. She could have been screeming to death for all we know. That would be to me, worse than murder.
What likely happened at Chappaquidick that day is uncertain. This much appears fairly clear. Teddy and Mary Joe Kopechne had left a party. Ted took a wrong turn that put him on a very narrow bridge with no guardrails. Its was the kind of road one found on an island 40 years ago before traffic safety received a great deal of thought. Its possible Teddy was driving under the influence. There is no blood alcohol evidence to prove or disprove that fact.
When the car left the bridge it plunged into a tidal pool that was 10-15 deep. You say Teddy may no effort to save Mary Joe Kopechne. His testimony was after getting out of the car and reaching the surface of the water that he made several attempts to dive down and rescue her. No witnesses were present so its hard to corroborate this testimony. Its logical though. She was a friend and unless the whole thing was a deliberate attempt to murder her from the beginning, he certainly did not want her dead. If you believe that please let me know.
Ted was slow to report the accident. In fact, there was no one nearby who could have done anything. His neglect was wrong, but did not cost Mary Joe her life. Her fate was sealed when the car went under the water. Could Ted have rescued her? Have you ever tried to rescue an adult stuck in a car 10 feet underwater without special equipment? Its pretty tough.
Is there alot to criticize here? Yes, there is. However, what Ted did is in the category of accident, not premeditated murder.
Another proof that in the US a senator is all but royalty. Unless they are convicted of a crime it is all but assured that the voters will re-elect the one with the most experience, and that assures that the representative system fails. Thankfully no human lives forever, so eventually the career politician will be replaced with a new career politician who will work hard to undo the Constitution.
The Americans with Disabilities Act, The Family Medical Leave Act and the Fair Housing Act. So we can thank Ted that the handicapped can access schools, public transportation, public buildings and all newer one and not be discriminated against in school or the workplace. The Family Opportunity Act also allows the parents of handicapped children to utilize Medicaid insurance for their child's medical care. It also ensures that all handicap children receive an education We can also thank Ted that we can take time off from work to care for a child or ill relative under the Family Leave Act. His legacy will be felt for years to come by the millions of Americans with disabilities.
How to rise to power, wealth and fame using illegal monitary family gains.
If the Mary Jo case had of happened post 1990, he would have served the remainder of his life behind bars. Back when this happened, the good ole boy network, was alive and well and he escaped justice.
I agree with you WilliamHarman, I've never been much of a royalty admirer at any place in the world and the Kennedy family seems to have that status in the US. They did so many immoral things, yet are somehow above the law, above the rest.....if you did what Ted did, you'd be under the jail...not one person would respect you anymore but he gets a state funeral!!! go figure! he is a hero! How on earth can that be OK? He left the scene of a deadly accident, that alone.....
Look at how many years later that other Kennedy was convicted....Martha Moxley's killer? Justice? I think not!
I agree with you WilliamHarman, I've never been much of a royalty admirer at any place in the world and the Kennedy family seems to have that status in the US. They did so many immoral things, yet are somehow above the law, above the rest.....if you did what Ted did, you'd be under the jail...not one person would respect you anymore but he gets a state funeral!!! go figure! he is a hero! How on earth can that be OK? He left the scene of a deadly accident, that alone.....
Look at how many years later that other Kennedy was convicted....Martha Moxley's killer? Justice? I think not!
It's interesting though... It seems to me that, though Ted had a state funeral & all, there was this national feeling of, "Yeah, but..."
Just like Bill Clinton will never escape the Monica mess, Ted will never escape his well-earned reputation as a womanizer, a drunk, an avoider of justice and a rich spoiled kid whose daddy bought him a seat in the Senate. Despite all the good things that might be mentioned about his 40+ years in the Senate, there will always be a, "Yeah, but..."
What alot of you don't seem to get is while it is true that Ted was a womanizer and a rich spoiled kid he accomplished far more than most of his critics ever will (certainly including the people who post here). He was the sponsor of (or at least on the right side of) the most significant social legislation in this country. His sponsorship of the Americans With Disabilities Act, Title IX, and SCHIPS resulted in more good for the poor, the disabled, and women than most people today are capable of imagining.
What also hasn't even been mentioned is that because of his long career in the senate, Ted was also there to vote for the Civil Rights Act of 1964, The Voting Rights Act of 1965, and the Fair Housing Act of 1968. Its tragic, but I sometimes think the same crowd that hates Ted Kennedy so much today would like to roll these laws back and send African Americans back to the plantation.
Ted should have handled the Chappaquidick matter differently and I don't doubt he has culpability for what occurred. However, the bottomline is that unless you are a conspiracy-theorist, Chappadquidick was an accident. It certainly was not intentional or premeditated murder by any stretch of the imagination. At the most Kennedy was guilty of something like negligent homicide, not murder folks, sorry.
[quote=markg91359;10645000]What alot of you don't seem to get is while it is true that Ted was a womanizer and a rich spoiled kid he accomplished far more than most of his critics ever will (certainly including the people who post here). He was the sponsor of (or at least on the right side of) the most significant social legislation in this country. His sponsorship of the Americans With Disabilities Act, Title IX, and SCHIPS resulted in more good for the poor, the disabled, and women than most people today are capable of imagining.
quote]
You just don't get it do you? The point is, we are not supposed to have royalty here in America, or those who escape justice because of their status. It does happen all the time, but the gap is narrowing these days. "Politicians=crooks" BEWARE!
Sure, Ole Ted passed some legislation, but this should not be justification for the criminal acts he got away with! We are not talking Jay walking here. He got away with these things, because of his family. Any other person would never have had the oportunity to "write legislation" or die a "hero." They would have lived in prison!
Oh, and people act like nobody else would have ever came along and advocated for the disabled. PLEASE! All that crap was, was a bill with Teddy's name smeared on it. I doubt he lost any sleep drawing it up.
The man was a Fat, drunk, womanizing, manslaughtering killer, who used his power to manipulate! A spade is still a spade!
You just don't get it do you? The point is, we are not supposed to have royalty here in America, or those who escape justice because of their status. It does happen all the time, but the gap is narrowing these days. "Politicians=crooks" BEWARE!
Sure, Ole Ted passed some legislation, but this should not be justification for the criminal acts he got away with! We are not talking Jay walking here. He got away with these things, because of his family. Any other person would never have had the oportunity to "write legislation" or die a "hero." They would have lived in prison!
Oh, and people act like nobody else would have ever came along and advocated for the disabled. PLEASE! All that crap was, was a bill with Teddy's name smeared on it. I doubt he lost any sleep drawing it up.
The man was a Fat, drunk, womanizing, manslaughtering killer, who used his power to manipulate! A spade is still a spade!
William, if Kennedy was royalty who made him king and where was his crown? The notion that the Kennedys' were somehow royalty is just a bunch of BS. They are/were a wealthy family that captured the public imagination. Ted could have been defeated for reelection during seven separate elections. Bottomline: Not only was he not defeated, he was re-elected with larger victory margins virtually everytime he ran.
If you seriously believe that all politicians are crooks you are a sad person. Some politicians are crooks. Not all are. I personally know people who served in Congress when they could have made much more money do something else. Congressional salaries are high, but the expenses of maintaining a residence at home and in DC both can be daunting. We have many public servants who take their jobs seriously on both sides of the political aisle.
Ted's legislative record in the senate was a damn good one. Whine all you want. I only listen to criticism from people who can show me they have done 1% as much as he has. What have you done lately William? Anything? My hunch is your probably one of these people who believe that the poor and minorities don't need or deserve any help.
You speak of Kennedy being a "crook" who got away with things. What else besides Chappaquidick do you have in mind? Anything at all? Yes, Ted drank too much. Yes, Ted played around with the ladies. However, unless you want to make adultery and drunkeness into imprisonable offenses, I'd like to know what you are talking about. I've dealt with Chappaquidick already, people will make of it what they will. Negligent homicide is not premeditated murder.
Ted Kennedy's advocacy for the underprivileged in this country was sincere. I think one can ask valid questions such as whether a wealthy white man really can be a good advocate for the poor, the disabled, minorities and women. However, what he believed and what he said came from the heart. Even, if at times he may have been too liberal and not have been able to see the downside of the legislation he pursued.
Finally, in your ending tirade I find it fascinating that the first adjective you select to demean Kennedy is the word "fat". There are lots of fat people in this world, William, but it does give us an idea about your level of hatred and your willingness to indulge in pure smear tactics. Rather, than manipulating people as you suggest, Ted's most successful legislative tactic was a willingness to work with the other side of the aisle to produce a compromise. Its a lesson too few politicians these days want to learn.
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