Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
But humans are Social Animals. In addition to the opposible thumb and binocular vision and hairless body, the human species evolved inescapably as a social animal, and as such cannot and does not exist as a viable creature that can live on its own without being a part of a larger social whole. And that is why we cannot assert that we have the right to do "what we want to do". You can say that a wildebeest has a natural right to wander off from the herd, and head for Egypt, but it would certainly fail to survive if it exercised that unnatural right. So our rights are limited by a natural enforcement, imposed by our inherent nature, which is incontrovertibly social.
The history of Botany Bay is quite interesting. There were no fences or walls, the convicts were just put off the ship in Australia. Though they had a "right" to walk away, there there is no record of a single one having done so and surviving outside the colony. The human imperative to be a part of the social fabric overrides any freedom from it, and thusly restricts our rights to those which do not imperil the society.
(I perhaps should have said semi-social, or perhaps gregarous, but I didn't want to get bogged down, neither do I want to digress into the difference between humans and honeybees.)
You fight, bleed and die for them. Then those who come after, who paid no price, give them back.
That's an interesting point. Rights we restrict can be as socially valuable as those we license.
In the 80's, one of my best friends was a WWII vet who was the local commander of the National Guard. We talked about war and peace a lot, from our respective radical perspectives. Once I asked him, "If you had known America would turn out to be like this, would you have fought for it?" He looked out the window for a few moments, and replied "Maybe not".
I wish you could all spend a couple of weeks in Singapore. The great majority are very contented with the "right" to live in a well-ordered society because a small minority have no right to disrupt it.
Can somebody summarize that 14 minute video, in text that I can read in 14 seconds?
Basically he is explaining the dichotomy between negative rights and positive rights. Indeed he offers no etiology of rights which is really what this post is about, but I still thought it pertinent. Negative rights are basically one's right not to be encroached upon by any other, or to have the fruits of his or her labor taken away, or really to be subject to any form of coercion. These rights are taken as basic and inherent.
Positive rights involve working as a community and helping one another to obtain access to goods. But this must always be accomplished on a voluntary basis or else negative rights are violated. This is where cooperatives and mutual aid organizations come in.
Violation of negative rights is basically enslavement. Violation of positive rights leads to deprivation. Neither scenario is good, however if negative rights are guaranteed, it will lead to a more egalitarian situation where positive rights can be available to all without any need for coercion or violation of negative rights.
[quote=thriftylefty;10830779 .......
If we accept that rights exist, we have to accept that we have them and move on to what are they. Whether they come from God or the Supreme Court we have to accept that they promote coexistence.
Even God, the highest form of existence seemed to create simply for the purpose of coexisting.[/quote]
Human Rights do exist, everybody knows them fundamentally, and everybody wants them individually ; if we didnt have the Moral Law inscribed on our hearts then objective Human Rights wouldnt be possible --- if we relied on the Supreme Court of our Land which are made up of Men to decided what our Human Rights are, then, they would only be the collective opinions of Men who might manipulate them as an instrument for Government control of the populus. The highest standard of human rights are afforded us based on intrinsic worth and dignity having been made in the Creators image who is THE ultimate standard .
Since God brought into existence time, matter, and space ...there was a time when there was no co-existence of any sort -- only Himself ; such is an Infinite personal Being that brings finitism into existence . God came to coexist with the finite Universe as a matter of his desire/will.
But postings on Great Debate forums DO require that you be able to offer empirical support for what you state to be facts, if you are going to use those facts to support other positions. Some things, of course, are not readily provable, but those ought to enjoy the general support of a broad base of knowledgeable researchers.
It is a misnomer amongst Skeptics who think Theism/Christianity is solely based on faith without reason ; that is far from true. In fact, a Theistic Personal Creator can and has been shown to exist as a necessary Being purely from the Cosmological , Teleological and Morality Arguement ; this confirmed scientific information cant then be compared to the 3 Major Religions of the World that espouse THEISM -- that would be : Christianity, Islam and Judaism . Have you examined how the 3 converging lines of scientifically confirmed evidence leads to a Theistic Personal Creator without coming to the table with a prior bias toward Natural Causes only ?
Maybe human kind would be better off if we would accept that human existence requires rights and duties to be inseparable and inherent.
It most certainly would and our Founding Fathers realized this too. However, our Human Rights are closely and justifiably linked to Absolute Moral Laws which can only be established by someone higher than Mans subjective opinions on whats right from wrong ....and that brings to the surface personal implications that many wish not to face (ultimate moral accountability in conjuction with LIMITED lifestyle freedom, which many see as a thorn in ones side).
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
